This game is just ANNOYING :(

So I just spent another afternoon dying repeatedly on level 2 dungeon.

Why is this game so FREAKING HARD?

First annoyance: "Permadeath". Who's idea was it to make this the default setting on the game? Fair enough, there probably are people out there who like bashing their own heads repeatedly against a brick wall. Its nice that the designers thought of them. However, extreme masochism would have to be a characteristic of the minority of players, wouldnt it?

So they make it the default setting (!?)

Stupid.

Second annoyance: "Press the space bar exactly 8 times for 3 millimeters of health regeneration, which you will need to do just about every time you have no food left and have to fight". Wow. Just Wow. Make players bash the space bar about 4000 times per hour. Is contracting RSI supposed to be a 'fun' aspect of the game design?

Dumb.

Third annoyance: "Make it IMPOSSIBLY DIFFICULT". So difficult that even on the second level of the dungeon, players will just die. Over and over and over. Because its fun restarting from the last save 50 times because you keep getting attacked. Even though you had cleared that section of the dungeon its now so populated you can hardly move without running into a HORDE of monsters who corner and kill you every time. restart, move, die. Restart, move, die. I just dont get it. Not fun. Really. Not fun at all.

Annoying.

Ok. Ive played the game for two days. I reckon thats long enough to get a feel for it. I have to say this has been one of the more frustrating experiences of my gaming career. I actually like the game, its humour, its graphics, and the 'ultima'-like gameplay...

But I just dont understand the reasoning. For me these issues have killed the potential fun of the game. The last straw for me was spending the last hour trying to get out of this level 2 dungeon and dying, literally about every 5 minutes. Or less. Restart, move, die. Restart, (try different route), move, die. Restart, (try different route), move, die. Bah.

I am baffled by the thinking here. Obviously very talented designers - my understanding this is an 'indie' game, so no 'big-studio' resources to put it together. Its an excellent effort

But is it seriously that flawed?

Am I missing something here? Am I just completely lame at playing it? - I accept this may be a realistic possibility - but I hope thats not it.

Help me out? What am I doing wrong?

 

The thing you have to understand is that DoD is very specifically a member of the Roguelike sub-genre of RPGs. Roguelikes are all stupidly hard, and all feature Permadeath. DoD is actually considered a Roguelike-lite for making unprecedented design decisions like being able to turn Permadeath off.

In other words, it's meant to be a hard game you can make easier, rather than the other way round.

This varies between difficulty levels. The general point, though, is that at higher difficulties you should design your character so that you don't have to rely on health regen - such as by having excellent defenses so you take less damage, or healing spells, or the ability to concoct healing potions, and so on. This is not as hard as it sounds once you're used to what the various skills available for this purpose are, and their strengths and weaknesses.

Both the fact that at higher difficulties health regen is painfully slow, and the fact that monsters spawn if you decide to spend time resting, are pointers to the fact that it is not meant to be relied on. At best, it's a bonus that lets you get a little health back as you wander around. (though this does make a mockery of skills that increase regen by only a few points)[/quote]

The "horde of monsters" effect is likely a consequence of you taking too much time to stand around regenerating too often. It's not normally that bad.

On the other hand, if you're dying on the second level so much, and getting cornered, you're probably doing something wrong. Normally, if you can survive the first level, even on Going Rogue difficulty, your character's gained enough skills and gear to make it through the second without too much trouble. Without more detail, though, I don't know what you're missing.

Have you checked out the various strategy threads, and Mr_Strange's guide? Reading through those should fill in a lot of blanks for you (I know it did for me, and I've been playing rather longer). Failing that, post your difficulties in more detail, and I'm sure the members of this forum will have some good advice for you.

 

Alright, since you asked:

First of all, your attitude is wrong
I am sure this stems from trying to enjoy yourself but failing, but try to reset your attitude for the next playround
This will help the most.

First annoyance:
Play however you want. I enjoy permadeath going rogue a lot and can't imagine playing anything else. But go Dwarvish or Elvish without permadeath first maybe.

Second:
Spacebar pressing: you could also just walk to a füd vending machine in the time it takes to regenerate, or alternatively press the 'digest' button: no need for spacebar

Third:
See 'First annoyance' (play elvish?), and maybe spent less time running back and forth? I can't imagine monster spawns being that big... so maybe you're not aware that every step you take has a chance of spawning monsters as far as I know. I am a completionist, I clear the entire dungeon and often enough run around searching for that last artifact for the inconsequential quest. Even then, the spawns are always a lot less then the first time you enter the rooms, hence, it should be easier then the first time (exploring it all).

Well, as to the latter part: This is a Roguelike. You're not meant to steamwaltz through it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike <- might offer some insights
That aside, well, it could be you're doing some things wrong yeah, sorry to say , because I do not have your problems.

Maybe watch a let's play? OR even better, talk to us how you do things and which skills you use.
For example, a good start would be a melee skill (swords for example), artful dodger, psionics, ley walking, dual wielding, burglary, perception.
Then, first level up you take Knightly leap, you can jump (teleport) the way a knight jumps on a chessboard.
It can get you out of trouble a lot.

EDIT: ah someone posted before I was finished typing.

 

You have to consider that this is not a normal RPG, but in fact a roguelike RPG, with various differences involved. Don't approach this with the idea of being able to play it from start to finish without dying. Dying is part of the game. Your approach is a bit like a Call of Duty player trying out Silent Hill and complaining that you keep running out of ammo. Simply put, you're playing it with the wrong attitude. Treat it as a different genre, and learn to enjoy the differences instead of complaining about them.

Permadeath is an important part of the game. It may seem a stupid nuisance, but it actually helps you learn, and in the long run makes the game easier for you. You're supposed to die a lot and then repeat the game with a different build, so you can keep trying out new things till you find a good set of skills you can do well with. Plus you'll have get new items and monsters on each play through, so you might get more lucky next time. Since you enjoy the humour et al you should still be enjoying it on each rebirth - you'll find new jokes and things you didn't notice before, and you'll still have fun with the game. Think of this as more like Pacman than Final Fantasy. The true "bashing your own head repeatedly against a brick wall" is to play without permadeath and repeatedly die to the same things, not realising that you're better off starting over with a new build.

Rest to regain health is a bad idea since more monsters spawn. Stock up on food from vending machines or make use of alchemy or fungal arts to keep yourself healed. Vampirism also helps here for many people, though it stops you regaining health from food. Another big thing is don't take damage in the first place. Wear protective equipment, weaken enemies from afar before engaging in melee (either through missiles or luring them over traps) and don't let yourself get surrounded (back up to single-width corridors when facing multiple enemies). If there's a single space between you and an enemy then wait a turn so it'll come to you, letting you get the first attack in and reducing the damage you take. Feel free to make use of the noble art of running away whenever it seems prudent.

Resource management is important. Use items wisely, and don't hoard the likes of wands and missiles without making full use of them. Spend your gold on needed items like food and bolts and new armour. Since inventory space is limited use up the less common food items first whilst building up large stacks of the likes of diggle eggs. Don't stick to a single gameplay style - melee alone is especially unwise. Remember that it's turn-bsaed, so you can spend as long as you want thinking through situations before tackling them.

And let us know what builds you're running and what skills you're choosing and what exactly is killing you so often. There's plenty of people willing to give helpful advice.

 

Good posts above.

Only tip I have: turn off permadeath if you don't like it. Simple.

 

Playing a Roguelike (and enjoying it) really requires a certain mindset. Ask yourself the following questions.

Did you ever play Dragon Warrior 1-3 on the NES? Or an early Ultima game? And more importantly, have you ever found yourself pining for the days when you could actually die in random battles after playing a modern "Press X to activate your allies' AI and win" RPG?

Did you ever play any of Golden Sun games (for the GBA/DS) and wonder why every single battle could be won with standard physical attacks when you have this huge repertoire of roughly 15 attack spells, none of which are actually required to win any given (non-boss) battle?

Did you ever wonder why modern RPGs are obsessed with side-quests, mini-games disguised as side quests, linear dungeons (with the odd linear side path that quickly dead-ends with a chest?), FMV cutscenes, and making the most incomprehensible, hands-off, real-time, AI-driven combat systems - instead of worrying about making a game wherein the joy lies in exploring semi-convoluted dungeons, acquiring loot to enhance your Party, and using a simple turn-based combat system with enough spells and skills to keep said combat at least somewhat varied?

If you answered "no" or "I never played that" or "I don't care, what's your point?" to these questions, this sort of game is almost certainly not going to appeal to you. If you want to give it another whack, I'd listen to the posters above me. They've all given you some solid advice.

 

Yeah please don't touch the regeneration system on Going Rogue, I think it's spot on!
It's too long to walk back and forth so you can be at max health all the time, but it's short enough so you can get those 2 more hitpoints if you really need it knowing the diggle will do 4 damage, it being near dead, and you having 3 hitpoints and learned enough to be able to plan for a random diggle counterstrike on the last hit.

Also: yes I never played relying on the auto-regen to give me my health, so I misunderstood the spacebar complaint (I thought OP meant when he ate/drank something). As has been said, it's really not the best idea, usually. Use it sparingly.
Let us know how it goes next time?

 

This sorta brings back what I been saying for a LONG time, the gap between Easy -> Hard is too narrow. GR is fine, can be even harder if you ask me, but Easy is wayyy to hard for those seeking easy.

Difficulty need some kind of damage scaling so you don't get spell blast to death just the same way on easy as you do GR.

 

This seems to me to be the core problem here. The tedium and the difficulty are one in the same problem: when you cast Invoke Tedium by pressing Space Bar 1000 times, you inadvertently also cast Summon Mob Horde. Therefore, you need to play with the goal of avoiding the Space bar. That means watching your Health, NOT EATING if you're only 33% down or even 50% down. You might be able to go 2-3 rooms without encountering any monsters and get your health back up through natural regen. You might not, but you probably won't die even if you do encounter an enemy. Always know where the nearest Satanic Glyph (or just a door) is so that you can step through it (close it) to escape a horde that's too big to deal with. Running is part and parcel of Dredmor, and it leads to character survival.

If you really want a "oh s**t" button, take Fungal Arts. Inky Hoglanterns, Fairywodger, and their ilk can really add a lot of survivability to a character.

 

Wouldnt it be possible to code turns pass as you HOLD the spacebar down ? Instead of bashing it to death ? If you just have to hold it while turns go by fast it d be a lot less tedious already.

OR, you can make a sleep button like other rogues. When sleeping: you cant move, your regen gets +5 or something and 30 turns automatically go by. BUT you cant react if a monster comes by while you sleep. You wake up at the end of the 30 turns or if a monster bashes your cute sleepy face.
What do you think ?

 

Considering how fast stuff respawns, I'd say it sounds like a good way to get your cute sleepy face bashed.

 

It's really why I take wand lore on almost all my characters, and vamp on all melee.

The health regen, especially on GR, is plain stupid. I just pretend that it doesn't exist.

 

I'm impressed with all of the mature responses to the OP. Well done, community!

 

For all practical purposes, it doesn't exist.

 

Which is good.

 

My current GR character is optimized to disagree about health regen - Walk it Off (+10), Duck & Cover (+4), Tortoise Maneuver (+4), Flesh Shield (+4), and Suit Up (+1) give me between +9 and +23 health regen all the time.

Ok, perhaps I'm being impractical. And my damage is mediocre still because I've focused on so many defense buffs. But it's certainly possible to make health regen really work for you in this game.

 

That's a bit much. Even on GR, you only need +12 health regen if I understand correctly to get 1 HP/turn and you're wasting it past that. That said, I didn't realize Walk It Off gave you a whopping +10; that along with a few simple enchantments can max you out for a good portion of the time. Impressive, and it leaves you with plenty of skills for offence.

 

Yeah but its not like you could activate walk it off whenever you wanted. Its not very reliable.