Ah...that's midly disappointing to me. I was looking forward to the advertised "warrior version" of Atheist Monk. But whatever, I'm not going to get hung up on it. Still excited to see how this turns out.
Yep, that's the idea, thanks for clarifying Oh, and a few things: 1: I'm considering renaming Heretical Engineering to "Heritech." Thoughts? 2: Well, I went in going rogue and maxed out the skill tree first-thing, and seeing how I wasn't one-shotting the enemies of floor 3 or anything, I don't think the stat bonuses are overpowered. I'll see how it works out when I add in the skills though 3: Aside from the two crafts I've listed, I'm planning on adding hidden recipes that actually use quest items. I'm absolutely going to have to have artwork for these things, so if anybody is willing to help out, PLEASE SPEAK UP.
Yeah, I'm considering removing those equalizing buffs and adding somewhat less than that to the warrior stats once you reach "Full of heart".
Just as a note: All those buffs aren't gonna help much on DL11+. While the idea is interesting, the skill tree just does not replace what it takes away, and if it did...there'd be problems. Let me explain: You have to realize that even a dual-wielding warrior would be capped at 52+ for damage - 52 being what dual-wielding Lirpas gets you, Lirpas being the highest-damage non-artifact weapon available While that sounds like a lot...it isn't. Evil Chest weapons can give 30+!!! damage in a single non-standard type, plus the base weapon damage, plus sundry buffs possibly including more damage. Stack on artifact gear bonuses, dual-wield, and you're looking at a damage output that can easily quadruple "bare" dual-wielding Lirpas. And at the moment....that damage output is the only thing that lets melee characters survive in the depths. Taking the current "roadmapped" skilltree, it grants +9 from actual buffs. That grants +1 and change from capping it compared to any other melee skill of equal length(due to the formula being [-5]/3 ) - not NEARLY comparable to losing out on Evil Chest weapons, not to mention the massive debuff you take from the skill, which you have NO way of countering without taking a mod skill tree specifically to do so. The skill tree does give about 18 extra ...but in the depths, that's 1 hit. At most. Now, if the skill DID give enough damage boost to counter the cost of losing Evil Chest weapons, there'd be nothing preventing anyone from capping the skill as early as possible, and thus cruising through the dungeon - or even worse, in the hands of a mage it would be an "all-in-wonder" skill to provide melee massacre ability to go with the ranged nuking mages already have, plus , , crafting, (as if they need MORE...), and . In essence, a massive gamebreaker. The idea is interesting...but fatally flawed due to the mechanics at work in the deepest levels of the game and the reality of Essence's oft-noted "anyone can cap any one skill by DL 2 at latest" caveat.
I'm not really sure I understand your obsession with the Evil Chests, Sniktch. I've played plenty of runs where I never found one after DL 6 and the gear they gave me was outclassed by simple weapons like the Lirpa. Are they helpful? Yes. Do we need to take them into account when balancing skills? No. We do not. Why? Because Evil Chests are not what makes a skillset unbalanced or not. What is proposed here is a fun skill that features give and take for challenging game play. Does it make using one particular part of the game less appealing? Yes, it does. But Evil Chests already had something to make them less appealing: the possibility that something would pop out of them and eat you. I know at least one other person who ignores them entirely for just that reason (once burned, twice shy.) Evil Chests may, in point of fact, be unbalanced. That is a problem for room and floor mods to address, not skill mods. I would not weep if someone built a mod that kept the Evil from spawning on DLs 9-15, mainly because I've never seen them down there to begin with and I probably wouldn't open them if I did because I'd be doubtful about my ability to survive any monsters they spawn. BTW, Raust, when I finally beat the standard game on GR I will probably include this in one of my first modventures. It looks like an interesting skill. I'm thinking Atheist Vegan, since all the radiance damage is on the Fishes anyways.
Lol, nice one! Anyway, it actually turns out that corruption doesn't work on items with artifact quality, just items that have actually been made into artifacts through enchantment. Weapons that say "artifact quality X" will not be corrupted by this skill tree as long as you don't enchant them. Does that change anything in your assessment, Sniktch? Also, I still need artwork if I'm going to get much further with this skill tree. Anybody willing to help out or know anybody who'd be willing to help out?
It means that (like a good Antitheist), you don't want to touch Krong Altars. On the other hand, Inconsequentia and Lutefisk prizes are both suddenly usable...which isn't necessarily a good thing, flavor wise
Actually no, those are corruptible as well, just not things that inherently say "artifact quality" something, like the one-armed leather jacket.
What sprites do you need? I'm not a great artist but I can give it a shot. (Don't feel that you need to implement my drawings if they suck.)
Basically, I'll just need, at a minimum, a piece of lutefisk outfitted with a handle for throwing, a horadric lutefisk cube with a handle, on the verge of caving in on itself, and 3 piles of random crafting junk.
I share your opinion but a good journalist never forwards his opinions as facts. Sadly, the world lacks good journalists these days... Incidentally, I feel that the major factor making Evil Chests unbalanced is the removal of the non-proficiency penalty. I think they were fine when you needed a specific skill to be sure of using their loot... BUT! That is not the topic of this thread. I didn't know that items with an inherent artifact quality were incorruptible. This is a fact I'll try and keep in mind on future runs... *scurries away to plot evil*
The world lacks good FACTS these days. When everything is arguable except that, and teaching the controversy sucks because it sucks, what's left to do?
Get of your rear and do something about it. Far too much talking these days. When I was a boy we... (this post has been edited for length.)
Not great, but "ok". Edit: Added Lutefisk-cube throwing weapon. (Its supposed to be a stick attached to the lutefisk-cube with duct tape. I don't think it really worked out.)
As an alternative you could have throwing fisk as a piece with "wings" too, or a spoon/fork handle from which it is flung Or for that icky aproach a splat like mark behind the fisk to indicate what it does on impact
How many weapons are there with artifact quality, decent stats, and available from a source other than Inconsequentia, Fisk Shrines, Zoo rewards, or Evil Chests? Same Q for armor. I think you'll find that there are very few - Smithing has the Flail Of Pleiades, Magma Mace, Golden Axe, Bone Axe, Axetar, Axekeytar, and Omnipotent Pork Sword; the Axetar/Axkeytar and Flail are the only ones marginally usable in floors below 10.. Tinkering has Clockwork Chainaxe,. Alchemy has Fruitful Staff - not sure if Jingly Jangly is artifact quality, but I don't think so. How does it interact with amulets? Time Lord's Scarf is the standard amulet in sub-10 levels - if that is corruptible when bought from Brax or found, then that will mean the only amulets that won't melt on you are Cybertronic, Ankh, and the Steel Gorget. And I'm not precisely "obsessed" with Evil Chests per se, Lorrelian. I AM focused on their balance effects overall, especially as it pertains to warrior builds. Are they a balance-breaker? If the game was already balanced, I would say they were. But it's not if you consider the base game; that is ALWAYS my start point, not "if I have Bushido/QiGong/Tactics/Geologist then this is balanced", primarily because the unlimited nature of mods makes balancing with them in mind impossible. Also, just to note: if you've not seen an Evil Chest or at least a Dwarven Express Post room sub-level-9, then I'd question if your RNG is working properly; I see a Dwarven Express at least every third floor, sometimes every other floor. Though No Time To Grind mode might influence that - it's known to make there be multiple zooless levels per run, floors with no Inconsequentia, etc. which would skew the balance again. If you only play No Time To Grind, then a complete lack of both lone Evil Chests and Dwarven Express Posts would not be exactly surprising. I play primarily the original mode, not No Time To Grind - mostly because I play primarily warriors and the lack of resources in NTTG is brutal on warriors. And sub-floor-10, the ONLY thing keeping me alive most times is the capability to two-shot Pectinious Tesseracts, Aether Oddities, and Cosbian Horrors, since they do well over 30 damage per hit, at least half of which is armor-ignoring - and they all have a crit rate in the mid-high 20s, so counting on Block, Dodge, or Counter is praying the RNG is kind. And playing keepaway is not usually an option for someone focused on doing melee damage - for reasons of time efficiency, ammo finiteness, and skill conservation. I would direct you to look at the boards for discussions on why warriors rely on Crit and Evil Chest weapons in the low levels - I'm not the only one saying this stuff. The skill line sounds like a wonderful IDEA, especially for a "handicap" or "hardcore" gamer looking for a new mountain to overcome. But for general purpose play, especially as the class it counts as its primary, it's a balance-breaker in the worst possible way, while boosting the already-most-powerful class significantly.
