Level 10 w/ Melee & Struggling

Hey guys,
I finally got down to level 10 with my level 20 melee build and I'm really finding it to be quite hard now. I'm taking more and more damage, I feel like I'm doing no more in return and so on. I've probably made some bad choices in terms of weapons and talents, but also gear, yet I'm not really sure how to remedy this for later playthroughs. I'm playing on Easy w/ RotDG, w/o Permadeath and no mods, and this is how I play regardless of my skill choices.

Inventory & Stats:


Skills



So, with later runs, what should I be changing or doing differently? I read in another topic that axes are good, but I've also read melee isn't a great thing to use and so on. Any advice would be much appreciated.

P.S. I did try a recommended mage build. I got killed by a Diggle. The first one I saw. I laughed, but it hurt

 

I cannot begin to tell you how much that happens to me. I've played mage builds I like but most of them feel far too squishy and they have an annoying tendency to die a lot on the first floor. On the bright side, you can try for the "Normandy" achievement.

OK, on to more important things.

You've made what I feel are some pretty solid skill choices, although dodging isn't all it could be at the moment it's value will increase. On the other hand, it's value drops a lot if you're playing a dude/gal in plate, and it looks like you are. If you're playing a melee build again, and you're not playing like a rogue (vanish, brain over the head, move in a mysterious way) I'd recommend replacing dodging with something else, probably Dual Wielding.

Which brings me to point number two. It's very hard to find weapons that deal decent damage at higher CL and lower DL, finding two weapons that deal decent damage is much easier. Particularly swords, where the highest weapon that you can find outside of Brax/quests/Evil Chests, the Katana, deals 15 damage. Incidentally, the two most damaging weapons you can find outside of the afore mentioned sources are (I believe) the Lirpa and the Royal Beatdown. This bug is fixed in the next patch, though, and there are some good swords that will spawn then. Just something to keep in mind. But no matter how good the weapon, dual wielding makes it twice as good and you armor more than makes up for the loss of most shields.

If you find Imperial Boilerplate or the IBP Helm you probably want to wear it. The exotic resistances it gives you aren't much buy they sure help.

Not sure what your 7th skill is. You obviously have swords, since I can see the special one your skill bar. Going to guess shields, since you apparently don't have Dual and Berzerking is the first thing on you list. While more block is good, I don't think you need both Shields and Master of Arms. I tend to prefer the latter due to its HP bonuses.

Be aware that, while many people recommend playing axes, its mostly because they offer increased critical chance, a feature that will be nerfed slightly in the next patch. Swords increased counter chance, on the other hand, will become a little more powerful.

To help you survive your current run, I recommend trying to find the Diggle God of Fertility, who will greatly increase your melee power and heal rate, or the Diggle God of War, who gives you tons of stats and fleshbore. In the future I like to point out the following skills:

With the exception of trap skill, Perception does nothing for a warrior that you can't get from Big Game Hunter, and BGH gives you food, XP and a bit more damage.

Dual Wielding, as mentioned above.

Alchemy combined with Blacksmithing lets you easily make Emerald Encrusted Gold Rings, instead of the bling you're currently sporting, because you can turn all the gems you find into Emeralds quite easily. It also lets you make heal potions and all other kinds of awesome stuff that buffs you. It's not just for mages.

Vegan makes the game tricky but its bonuses are epic. Consider taking it for a challenge, if nothing else.

Taking one skill for traps isn't a bad idea, but I recommend Burglary over Perception. You don't really need the sight boost or accuracy boost as a warrior, and stealing things is fun.

Mix and match to taste.

My two bits (which is $ 0.25 for those of you wondering.)

 

Well, thanks for the reply!

I took Perception because I'm an idiot and I constantly run into traps. I figured that if I take it then I'm at least trying to enhance my survivability and also gain experience by disabling traps.

As for finding the Diggle Gods - doesn't seem possible right now. I'm on level 10 and I'm really starting to struggle. Enemies are really taking their toll on me, and I'm not surviving as often as I'd like.

So, basically, I want to swap Shields for Dual Wielding, Perception for BGH and... Um... I'd like to take Alchemy w/ Blacksmithing (but two skills at once is hard on one's inventory, no?), but I wouldn't know what to swap out.

 

Check out my clockwork knights mod. It adds several top tier melee weapons that are also craftable.

 

Sorry, Ruigi - I should have mentioned this - I'm not a big fan of gameplay mods, especially if I've not finished the game itself.

 

Whoa, looking at your post again I can see that you did include a screenshot with your first two skills in it. I'm not sure how I missed that.

Right, returning to subject.

Alchemy is probably more useful for your build than Dodging, and while multiple craft skills are hard on inventory Alchemy has the bright spot of coming with the Elven Ingot Grinder, which condenses all cheeses into grated cheese and all the meats into ground meat (particularly useful with a maxed out BGH.) Grinding cheese looses you a few HP healed (that is to say, the total HP healed by all the grated cheese you get is 1 or 2 HP less than the HP healed by the original cheese) but grinding meat gains you a few HP, so on the total you should come out even, particularly if you make cheesy omelets out of your diggle eggs. You can always not grate your cheeses later on, when you're out of eggs, but if inventory space is an issue, the grinder really helps. And you don't have to keep every reagent you find. I sell most of the Aqua Regia and Acidium Salis I find, unless I have specific plans for it.

If your heart is set on dodging, Berzerk and Dual Wield aren't both necessary in the same build. Of course, it's nice to have both and I, personally, love the skill tree a lot (particularly the tribal marking skill) but if you'd rather have dodging, that's the next thing in line that I would cut.

But again: Mix and match to personal taste. I'm currently playtesting a mod for Raust and when I'm done my next warrior is going to try and kill Dredmor without going over level 20. On Going Rogue. With Permadeath. So my tastes are kinda screwed up to begin with.

 

Right, I think I've got an idea. You're right about dodging - I don't know what planet I was on when I thought it'd go well with Rage.

>take skill that gives +damage if hit
>also take skill that increases avoidance
GENIUS

Thanks though, Lorrelian. I'll see what I can do.

 

R.E. the ground meat - is it the grinding that "gives" the HP (i.e. if I grind when healed I get +HP) or is it the HP gained from eating it increases with it being ground? That doesn't seem right, as the ground stuff seems to be about 3HP and steaks can be 5-10 at least. I'm not really sure what to do with it, either. I can't craft anything better with it.

 

It's there for inventory management convenience - instead of 6 or 7 types of meat you have 1 type that, even if it's not that viable in combat, can be used to restore health outside of it without problems.

And just why does grinding meat give you more healing per item is something you'd have to ask people who make ground meat about.

 

I'm saying that the HP gain from ground meat increases the total HP available for healing.

A lump of ground meat gives 3 HP. Consider the following metrics:

Steak gives 6HP or 2 lumps of ground meat
Aged Steak gives 3HP or 2 lumps of ground meat
Offal gives 3HP or 2 lumps of ground meat
Cube of Flesh gives 4HP or 2 lumps of ground meat
Grilled Steak gives 10 HP or 4 lumps of ground meat
Fresh Steak gives 7 HP or 3 lumps of ground meat

As Kazeto said, ground meat is worthless in combat but it's nice for topping off the tank outside of combat. But after DL 2 steaks aren't really good for much else anyway. As you can see, the only meat item that doesn't give more HP as lumps of ground meat are steaks, which give equal quantities. While the mileage isn't a whole lot better per item, it adds up over the course of a game.

Edited because spacing of the first version got totally screwed up.

 

You can add mods to a game that you're already playing - but once something from one of those mods gets spawned into the game, you have to load that mod forever thenceforth.

So you could grab the CK/megacrafts mod, and if you make it to floor 11, some good gear would start spawning down there. Which will help a lot, because currently the game is bugged to not properly spawn anything better after level 10.

 

Lorrelian - Ah, I see your point. Yes, that's very true and I understand what you're saying. Considering the abundance of food (especially cheeses), I might not need them but I'll bear it in mind. Kazeto's point about inventory management is well-made, too, and that's definitely a benefit.

Daynab - It's simply that it feels like my damage output is not all that great. I don't feel like I'm particularly better against enemies now, and ones like the Robo give me a lot of hassle because they're simply just damage sponges. I might be using the wrong type of weapon (I use the sword for everything, to be honest), I might be not trying to use my crossbow on them before I get in range - whatever it is, I'm just not getting far without dying.

As for burglary - I'm not really sure I'd ever use it. I'm sure stealing is fun, but there's rarely anything worth stealing from the shops. Does it have any other use beyond the teleports? Artful Dodger has that Knightly Leap (I think) skill which I find quite useful. I mentally (I don't mean to) categorise it with Archaeology and stuff in skills I deem of limited use or of little interest to me. Half of the time it's because I don't know what they do and I'm not rolling a character to just to find out, or because they don't fit in with how I tend to play games. I like the idea of the Sword & Board Warrior, although I guess it's one of the weaker classes in Dredmor.

R.E. mods - Nope, still not doing it, at least not yet. I don't have anything against mods, I just don't like using gameplay mods. I don't even use them in Skyrim.

 

Althea --

For a straight-up Sword and Board warrior, you can totally do it, but there are a few resources you need. Primary among them is escape buttons. I've had good luck with a setup like this:

Maces (Maces = Knockback, which is an escape button)
Master of Arms (primarily for Walk it off and the 3 points of Armor Absorb)
Shield Bearer (Shield Bash = more Knockback, and Tortise Maneuver is a decent healing boost particularly on Elvish)
Berserker Rage (it's almost all good, but particularly Ancestral Body Paint and Killing Blow)
Assassination (Max it out for lots of damaging and stunning procs. Stun is like a one-monster escape button, too)
Smithing (To fill out gear slots you don't manage to find good stuff for and work around corrpution. Plus buffness is good, too.)
and the piece de resistance:
Fungal Arts. Never more than one level unless you want a slimeball following you around, but that one level gives you vampirism, invisibility, emergency healing, thrown confusion to slow zoos down and give you a moment to get set up, and stackable broad-spectrum resistances. All good things for a badass fighter to have. If you do take more than one level, be sure to take at least four: Combat Mycology is a nice damage proc that is also an escape button, as it confuses it's foe as well.

 

For burglary, it is good because it gives a lockdown, which is very useful against creatures than can corrupt you, as you can keep them away long enough for you to kill them as well as having the teleport and a bit of trap handling (which is good for the added XP, if nothing else), and it doesnt tend to clash with heavy armour benefits. I personally find it one of my most used skills, as being able to steal some extra bolts or crafting goods from the vendor machines is fairly useful eairly on while opening every door or chest via infinite lockpicks is usefull too.

Though I'd say the bigest issue is your lack of resistances, as most creatures at the higher stages do allot of damage with the damage types that simply ignore armour absorption.

 

Thanks Essence, I'll give it a go this afternoon and see how it works out.

Loswaith; I see... So Burglary is very good for crowd control, but also for the trap experience? I'm not too bothered about the doors or chests, but I see your point anyway.

As for resistances - You're probably right. I'll try and work on them if I can, or I'll be sure to keep them in mind with later characters.

 

Traps aren't just exp either. If you have enough trap skill you can pick them up and carry them with you, then leave them for other people to step on.

Or sell. Y'know, if you're strapped for cash.

 

Burglary has a good mix of useful stuff, I cant realy say if it's that good for crowd control as I've not tried a spellcaster yet, but find it even aside from the small bonuses of stealing to give some extras that can save you in a pinch.

 

This may sound crazy, but your best bet might be to just go down the first stairs you find. Just punch your way down till the floors are made of wood. In my experience floors 9, 10 and 11 are way harder on melee characters than floors 12 and 13. Arch Diggles and Muscle Diggles are much nastier in melee than the Spirit-Tubers and Preserved Witches that appear after them. Do the floors out of order, and with any luck the higher character levels and slightly better equipment gained from 12 and 13 will make the fights easier if and when you backtrack.

 

Bergstrom is 100% correct. Floor order is more of a suggestion than a law.