Interior Dredmorating version 1.2.6.4

The major one I remember from the main game occurs on DL3. It's a huge room with an upside-down U shape, but an island in the middle that almost always spawns either a chest or a lever -- and has no way onto said island except via teleport.

Also, the six-switch exchange room has an island, too, but it usually only spawns bad guys.

 

There's dozens of hidden rooms with destructible walls in the game. Quite a few of them are on the first floor. Make a character with psionics some time, and just roam about the first floor spamming psychokinetic shove on every wall. You'll find a bunch of them.

There are numerous tiny islands with artifacts in the game, roughly 1 per floor without mods. They can be reached with teleport or you can just scoop the item with a ranged knock-back effect. The "moonbase" floor has a much larger island that essentially has the same impact.

As to other specific rooms, there's a memorable treasure-room in the main game that spawns a couple hordes. Off the the right-hand side is a secondary area that's behind a lava moat, some bars, and a few traps. All three sets of bars have independent chances to spawn, and every once in a while you'll get one that seals off that section entirely so the only way in is to teleport. Sometimes you get a set of stairs back there in the barred-off section, sometimes you don't. First time you come down stairs into that dead end, it's quite a shock. Then you'll never look at the dungeon the same way again.

There's also a couple main-game rooms that have narrow choke-points that sometimes get clogged by random blockers. Things like vending machines spawning just south of the "pull to engage dark forces" lever. Poke around the bug forums - first time any of this sort of stuff happens to someone, they typically assume it's a bug that's never affected anyone else before. It's not a bug, it's a feature, at least as far as I'm concerned.

About half the skills in the game have either a teleport, a spammable area-effect, or a dig effect. It's pretty hard to accidentally build a character that won't eventually get one of those effects but still has a chance of surviving the deeper floors of the dungeon (even without ID installed). If you're not using any of those skills, you might want to re-evaluate your builds.

 

There's literally no way to ensure that a level 1 zoo won't literally be behind the first door you open. Thus, 20 monsters would be too much, IMHO. I used to think otherwise, but after the outcry to move the Zomby Zoo down a floor, I bowed to the pressure of my adoring fans and Essence's constant declarations that the game wants you to reach floor 6.

And no, I purposefully haven't gone above 150 or so per zoo. Since it's possible to get a double-zoo, and my mod adds some floor-specific rooms that are as tough as zoos on their own. I just didn't want to risk inflicting 3 zoos with a total of 550+ monsters on a single floor. If I'm understanding the way rooms.xml works, simply having extra zoos in the files should increase the chance of a double-zoo happening. I want to make the game more challenging, but I'm not that evil.

Funny, I don't remember you asking for permission to use that artwork. You asked if you could use my door and cupboard images back before I upgraded my graphics, didn't you?

 

Well, I do always take the build with Knightly leap. I don't think I've ever not taken it. I just can't think of any melee/ranged character who never had that either by floor 3, or floor 4 at the latest.
I apologize if I sounded grumpy, rude, or stupid.
I don't mean to come across as that.

Think of me like the Devil's Advocate but less demonic.
Thanks to both of you for explaining about all the rooms and features. I really feel silly now for not realizing all that.
Just cleared a 7 monster zoo on the first floor, which is actually easy when it's not the second room you enter in the game.
Got a belt of Champions from it. Wow.

I also didn't know about all the secret walls in the game either. I'll keep that in mind. Too bad I don't pick magic that much. I take it without the Pyschic tree, or any magic based skill, those secret areas are unusable?

 

Not true at all. Refer back a couple posts to the list I gave of ways to get through them. Just about anything will do.

Here:

 

Did I mention I'm sometimes guilty of misreading things?
Also, glad to know.

So far, haven't seen anything weird. Other than the long hallways to shoot enemies down sometimes spawns the monsters next to the lever, behind you. And in the hallway. I like that section of the map though, it's cool.
But other than that, I haven't really seen anything that could be considered a bug.

OH, do you think, maybe you could add a new insult/saying later where the diggle enemies say. "We Diggles are totally not Prinnies, Dood, wait..." Prinnies have dood as part of their catch phrase, and the Diggles in Dungeons of Dredmor are pretty obviously based on them. So, it would be nice to see that mentioned.

I don't know if enemies can be given specific insults based on their type, but if not, you can just change We to The.

 

I had to search to find out what a prenny was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinny

I greatly disagree that diggles are based upon them however. Prennies are obviously based upon Penguins. And Penguins are obviously based upon ... This sort of logic is otherwise known as conjecture.

We could just as easily say that DoD is obviously based upon every other Roguelike. Or that the Ford Model T was obviously based upon carriages. Or that PCs were obviously based upon calculators. Or that Cauliflower is obviously based upon Broccoli. Or an infinite number of such things.

Diggles are more unlike Prennies than like them. Sure both have flippers and look like penguins with a few differences, but that is where the similarity ends.

I am sorry if this comes across as rude. That is not my intent. But what you suggest comes across as an accusation of patent infringement. I am certain that is not what you meant, but that is how I read it.

 

I make mostly random characters and I dunno, a lot of times I wont have teleport. In the main game, a bunch of the inaccessible loot can still be accessed with concussion bombs ( small island loot, or moving the bars sometimes blocking the way ).

Also, yeah... Please dont go above 9 monsters for the zoo on lvl 1. GR lvl 1 is already a tough beginning with some of the skills until you reach character level 3.

 

I am sincerely sorry, but in no way did I ever claim this to be a patent infringement. I'm a little insulted that you said that. I don't think you're rude though.

I should have phrased that better, but what I meant, was simply a joke added in the mod, to reference the fact that they are like Prinnies.
I have always thought of the Diggles being a reference, an homage if you will, to the Prinnies. Mostly due to how they are represented.
Still, apologies for any problems I caused.

 

I am sorry. Perhaps I overreacted. And I am polluting the thread of a great mod by blabbing about it here. I vote that we all take turns throwing explosive Diggles at me as a penance for my overreaction.

(I may well be nuts. Prenny jokes are good humor, even if I am a dumbarse that thinks they are a rip-off of Pokemon, and Pokemon is a rip off of Pac-Man, and that Pac-Man is a rip off of... I do not know... Poodles?)

I love DoD and ID, so I will kindly STHU now.

 

I did edit my post a bit, perhaps I should edit it a bit more. I didn't figure the nuclear option was a nice statement on my part.
I apologize for freaking out on my end.
I mean no hard feelings.
I also wish to apologize for derailing the thread. I believe I should probably have explosive things thrown at me too.

 

It is all right. Tell you what, why not just forget it and enjoy the game and the forums. We are glad to have you here too.

 

You did say "feel free to use/quote my stuff", so I did. It's amazing what one can do with a few trees, towels and tesla coils.

Hmm, regarding monster zoos, I get your point, although I still feel 2-9 monsters is a bit low for a potentially good and/or out-of-level artifact. I've gotten a magic sombero off the first floor zoo, and I think someone else reported getting a belt of champions. After all, there's nothing guaranteeing one won't run into the large treasury chamber (the one with the acid gargoyle bolt trap) and its two potential hordes + random monster spawns right off the bat, generally totalling about 10 or so monsters. I'm going to play with 10-15 population zoos and see how that works out.

I also see your point about the 200 zoos, although the ones I'm testing are all split up with custombreakable doors, so the players can take a break and maybe come back later. Also, can probably tweak the spawn rate with the number of doors leading to the room, so they don't turn up THAT often. It can be hard clearing out a double large zoo, I agree, but it really feels *great* to clear out a 200 + 100 zoo and get one and a half levels out of it, even if the reward's lackluster.

Anyways, I'm really enjoying the new shops and zoos; it's nice to see some decoration in those rooms.

 

That was me, by the way.
Sadly, I later ate that belt for an Aphrodite's Girdle. Well, at least that belt isn't too bad. Although, my male character may have probably not been the best choice to wear it. Also, I find it unique that the belt's description calls me a slut, but only if I wear nothing else
"Oh, My." as George Takai would say.
I'll probably find another Belt of Champions like I normally do by level 12.
The Belt of Champions also spawned with a sneakiness bonus. Which was entertaining to see.

 

Huh, when I tested it, I got things like 'Adventurer's Gloves with a bonus point of Haywire'. I guess the RNG hates me.

I'll think about cutting down the number of doors to the mini-zoo then, as that will both decrease the odds of the zoo spawning, and increase the chance of it having the full complement of monsters. (For those unaware, the 3 spaces of the zoo adjacent to any door are not tested for monster spawning. If you look closely at the mini-map, you'll see that the zoo's pink shape isn't exactly the same from floor to floor, because the spaces adjacent to any doors that spawn are not considered part of the zoo.)

I acknowledge the factual accuracy of that statement about the treasury. It does sometimes hit you with a double-horde (plus) while you're still level one, and that's pretty much game-over when it happens.

However, I could also counter-argue with the corresponding statement that one will almost always find an artifact island on level 1. The artifact spawning algorithm is basically the same for zoos and island artifacts (based on a statement Nicholas made in another thread about how there were only 3 internal commands that spawn items), so that magical sombrero or belt of champions could already spawn on a 1x1 island.

(When an item is placed, it's quality rating sits on some sort of bell curve centered around the dungeon level. The closer the quality rating is to the current floor number, the more likely that item will spawn, but there's no way to rule out the possibility of a 6-star item showing up on any of the artifact spawns on floor 1. And since there are no items with a quality rating less than 1, the first floor has a decent chance of giving an over-powered item and no corresponding risk of getting an underpowered one.)

Of course, in making such a counter-argument, I'm falling victim to the same logical fallacy that you were (and that myself and others have fallen to in various discussions about play balance). Sort of a fallacy from example. Basically, we're saying that because any given thing exists in the main game, more of the same can be added without unbalancing the game. While it may be a good starting place in discussions of play balance, sometimes it's just not true.

In this case, there's just 1 room that has 10 monsters in it on the first floor, so there's only a slim chance that you'll run into it before you're strong enough to take it. By adding a second large room, you're basically doubling the chance of that happening. Probably more than doubling, because while it's quite common to see a floor without a Treasury, nearly every floor that can get a zoo does get one. Plus, your 20 monster zoo definitely sounds harder than the Large Treasury, since it's twice as many monsters and doesn't have the treasury's traps in between them to thin them out.

Perhaps the best solution is to include one tiny zoo like I did, and one 20-monster zoo like you're proposing, so sometimes it's an almost-free artifact, and sometimes it's a killer room, but no single play-through is guaranteed to get either. Just a thought.

As I said: I initially thought, like you, that making the first floor harder was a good thing. Then I was dissuaded by various comments on these forums. If you raise the challenge level of that first floor too much, people start complaining.

 

Hmm, yeah. I've already toned down the number of monsters on my floor one zoo to about 10-15, depending on how many doors are spawned, and tested fresh characters right off the bat (most warrior/rogues survived, but mages generally ran out of mana). If it's still too much, I may take your idea and include some acid gargoyle and firespout traps in the zoo to help out - I really don't feel like going below 10-15 monsters in a zoo.

I've also definitely been noticing a lot more more double zoos with the new version of ID coupled with the verion of RR in testing, so you may be right about more zoo rooms meaning more double zoos. Splitting up the zoos like the one you've done with the zoo with false walls isn't a bad idea - those who want the challenge can go on, while the less machoistic can take a break, explore a little more and get some more consumables before heading off to finish the next batch. (So long as they don't leave the floor, the zoo counter shouldn't vanish.)

I will say, though, that I've had my own double 200-monster zoos inflicted on me, and killing all four hundred of them without taking the optional break between each 100 (as a rogue/warrior build on GRPD) gave me a rush that I hadn't felt for a long time - if I can replicate that in other people, it'll have been worth it.

 

I think this warrants a double-post.

The "Kitchen and Library" room on level 5 still calls for a kitchen_counter_ns.png, when you've already removed this from the /dungeon files. It causes the game to crash during the transition from level 4 to 5. I've edited my own rooms.xml, but you might want to push out a hotfix soon for those less familiar with the room coding.

 

My game is thankfully loading level 5 just fine. I did crash when clicking on a bookshelf though. Stupid wand based crash that I forgot about.

That is indeed a bug that needs to be fixed though. Even if it's not a 100% chance.

 

[quote="lccorp2, post: 26664, member: 1744"The "Kitchen and Library" room on level 5 still calls for a kitchen_counter_ns.png, when you've already removed this from the /dungeon files. It causes the game to crash during the transition from level 4 to 5. I've edited my own rooms.xml, but you might want to push out a hotfix soon for those less familiar with the room coding.[/quote]

Good catch! Thanks for posting about that.

Here's a fixed version: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8238260/Interior Dredmorating 1.2.4.zip

EDIT: I just updated the link on the first post of the thread.

Updating from 1.2.3 to 1.2.4 should not cause any problems for games already in progress. The only change is that it fixes the crash bug that had slipped into the 1.2.3 version.

 

Sorry for the double post, but the forum software is being buggy and not letting me reply to two people in the same post.

That's a main-game crash, I'm afraid, and there's nothing I can do about it. I've read elsewhere that it will be fixed in the next DOD patch. Until then, try not to mouse over the lathe picture.