What gender do Dredmor players identify as?

I don't find homosexuality disgusting or disturbing, really - no more or less than I find heterosexuality disgusting. I think disinterested is a more appropriate word than disgusted.

But as long as we're all tolerant and not hateful in any way about it, I don't think that expressing honest feelings on a topic is something to be mocked. I can't entirely understand the idea of identifying as a gender that isn't one's biological gender or being uncomfortable with the body one was born with, but I don't have any hate or intolerance for those who do/are. I identify as male simply because I can look down and see quite clearly that I am male despite not really being interested in either gender.

 

tbh I find all kinds of sex kind of "blergh" - I like people, not sticking sticks into holes as someone astutely pointed out. I guess I could say I'm asexual in that respect.

 

Last time I checked, "gay" sex is no different to any variation on "straight" sex. You put the deer into the squid regardless of who you're Diggling.

I would also ask some of you, as jadkni implied, back off on the language a bit. To say you find "gay sex disgusting" really doesn't portray you in a good light, and may in fact appear to make yourself seem hostile to this board's gay members and visitors. So, you know, just watch what you say. This is meant to be an open and inclusive discussion site where no-one should feel bad just for existing or liking what they do. Just because something doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean it's "disgusting". You'll do ten things that are more "disgusting" each day, so yeah.

 

Indeed. Even if you say "I find gay sex disgusting, but I also don't care for straight sex", you're differentiating between the two. Simply, all that was needed was "I find sex disgusting". If you differentiate, you open yourself to criticism but more importantly you reveal your prejudices. Now, I'm not saying anyone here is homophobic, but there are some airs of homophobia rising from some of the posts because of the differentiation going on.

Sex is all icky and gooey for all genders and sexualities. It involves bodily fluids, bodily functions and parts of the body being stuck in other parts. Some find that disgusting, some find it enjoyable in spite of that (or even because of that), but the sex between two men, two women, a man and a woman or anyone else is no different on any level. Some specifics might differ, but for most people it's done for the same reason and with the same intent. Heck, some would say sex is beautiful regardless of the participants (yeah, noisy sweaty sex is beautiful... people, eh?), and perhaps it is.

So what I'm saying is this, and Daynab got it on the money. It's not so much what you say, it's how you say it. It's one thing to say you don't wish to participate in "gay sex", it's another to say you find that specific thing disgusting. The former is personal choice (although still with an unnecessary 'gay' signifier), the latter shows a 'phobia' of that group of people because you find their behaviour disgusting.

Truth be told, I find eating disgusting, but I wouldn't say I find the way one group eats any more disgusting than another (unless it involves eating with your mouth open or slurping at everything, in which case I'm about this close to hitting you with a chair, but that's never something specific to one group).

At least I don't have to worry about being propositioned by anyone here, now

 

I can be overly honest sometimes(asbergers here, move along). But it's not a fear, thus not a phobia, but it is my psychological reaction. I'd go into analogies but it wouldn't be nice of me to do so, so I'll refrain. I am definitely not saying that it is inherently disgusting, only that it is my psychological reaction to it. I guess I could have been more tactful and said I have an aversion to it.

I'm theoretically ok with it, but not in participating, and I too easily juxtapose myself when I see something performed.

I think this is if not the majority reaction of straight men, then at least very common. You could say it's irrational, but I think it's inate, instinctive if you will. I'll fully acknowledge that the fault, if any, is in me, not anywhere else.

I do not mean to say I pass judgement. Heck I don't even particularly have a problem with anal.

EDIT: Better? I actually used the other word as a euphemism(basically had 4 choices: classic, porn, curse word, or joke, went with classic). I'm from sweden, we're a largely atheistic country, and I'm one of them.

 

Can we just call it sex, please? "Sodomy" has a lot of negative connotations attached to it, and is being 'phased out' as a term, both legally and otherwise. The only people who tend to use it these days are right-wing extremist religious groups.

So simply, you don't want to have sex with a man. That's all that needed to be said. I'm not having a go at you, nor am I saying you're a homophobe or anything, I'm simply saying that what you say can be extremely hurtful or prejudiced even if you don't mean it to be taken in that way, and sometimes saying less is much better than saying more.

(Anyway, homophobia is more of a misnomer, as you kinda touched upon. It's both rational and irrational, but the rationality largely stems from cultural attitudes - i.e. All Men Must Be Manly And Loving Men Is What Women Do Therefore Homosexuality For Men Is Not Manly Therefore It Is Wrong - rather than, say, any real 'fear' other than that which has been propagated and perpetuated by society)

 

Just to clarify, my comments about anal and oral sex being, in my view, disgusting apply to anyone doing that, not just homosexuals. With anal, you're shoving things into a hole that's not supposed to ever have anything shoved into it; and with oral the hole is designed to have things be put in it, but not necessarily taken out, and is still not a hole you're supposed to be doing that with (and our bodies do their utmost to inform us of this; according to pretty much everybody who's ever done that stuff, sexual fluids taste terrible).

The thing where my brain goes "the crap?" at male homosexual sex is the fact that as far as I can tell they don't have any options besides those to fornicate. (I honestly kinda feel sorry for them in that regard? but don't tell them i said that theyd beat me up for sure)

 

You do know not all homosexual men have anal sex, right? (Plus, if stuff isn't meant to go "in" there, why does stimulation of the prostate result in pleasure, hm?) You can also have non-penetrative sex (Wonkipedia link; has some NSFW images - all 'art', however)

Seriously, the lack of one orifice does not really limit what one can do sexually.

Anyway, the whole "X isn't for Purpose Y" argument is completely redundant when you think about what humanity does as a whole, let alone compared to the animal kingdom... which largely behaves in the same way. Wonkipedia to the rescue... again

In other words, humans don't do much that animals haven't done for thousands of years before us.

 

Hey, neat, I have Asperger's too.

Althea, I honestly never got the "I hate gays and they all should die in a fire." vibe from anyone here, even Omni.
I've been around a lot of discussions about sexuality and gender on forums before, and believe me, I know when people really hate gays.

I know this is a sensitive subject.
Even jhffmn didn't seem to me to be insulting, just trying to make a joke to lighten the mood, not that I'm trying to tell Daynab how to do his job or anything, , I just don't think he was.

 

As I've said a few times now, I'm not saying anyone involved in this discussion is homophobic, I'm saying that some people have used terms and phrases that could possibly be construed as being homophobic and as such I'm trying to explain my position and point out why it's wrong.

I don't want to go on a weird rant, but a few words can make a major difference in the way your post is interpreted by others.

 

The one weird thing I find is that people say "Oh your point of view is horrible you're being awfully homophobic and making me uncomfortable" - while it's closed minded they find X disgusting - it's no different to me finding raw fish disgusting despite many people eating it daily.

As far as I can tell, they're both acts performed - typically - by groups of people, be they ethnic, sexual, political, whatever - and its not discriminatory or homophobic to say "well hey, I have no problem with X - I just do not want to see this particular thing."

There's a lot of hoopla that goes on about people's life decisions, but in general that's just people being people. Sadly, the loudest voice is often the one that gets heard over the majority, but instantly labelling negative attitudes as - for example - racist or homophobic is a mistake. There's an awful lot of people who will happily pretend to be liberal and free speaking while thinking the opposite, and a whole lot of people who are politically incorrect in terminology or discussion but have a deeper understanding of the issues involved and a more liberal outlook. I mean, hey - this is new. There are people alive today who were born before universal suffrage - only 3 generations since women were first allowed to vote. These are times of change, and in insisting that everyone conform to a specific standard - in an attempt to broaden possible standards (!) we risk reducing the impact of the message.

 

But people are killed, assaulted, abused and bullied daily for being gay, transgendered or otherwise, whereas - to use your example - people who eat raw fish aren't killed because of that.

 

I am being censored. So fuck it. This post goes poof. As do the rest of mine in this thread. Please do not involve me in this thread again. I am unwatching it and deleting all further posts I made here.

 

Omni, you do make a couple of fair points, But you have to realize that, first of all, language is always changing. Honestly, I occasionally feel like people on this board speak a different dialect than I do.

That said, when someone says they are offended by something, I usually assume that they are expressing their feelings honestly, unless they've given me reason to doubt it. I think that it's a sign of respect to honor those feelings. I may not understand in some cases, and sometimes I may feel that someone is overreacting. But I also understand that I have not experienced what that other individual has experienced. As an example, I've been in multiple situations where I've had to keep my religious background secret out of fear for personal safety, for example. And I know that others that have not experienced that have disbelieved me when I described it.

So I just suggest that when someone else may seem overly sensitive to you, you may want to give them the benefit of the doubt, because more often than not, there are rational reasons behind that sensitivity.

 

Seriously? Omni, I know you've come out with some stuff before, but this tops the lot.

Look in any respectable dictionary, and you'll find a definition for 'Gay' relating to heterosexuality. By your logic, someone who defines themselves as "straight" is avoiding their heterosexuality, yes? Well... maybe it's just an easier, shorter, snappier term? Gay and Straight. Both make no sense when put together except in that context - because as you rightly said, gay can be a mood. But maybe, just maybe, the word gay was chosen for its meaning. Maybe it was chosen to evoke happiness, pride and so on. Straight, however, implies rightness and order and precision. Straight is right, right? Well, of course not. It's just what you are, it's no more "right" than being gay, it's just the way the dice roll.

You know the term "retarded" was perfectly acceptable medical jargon, yes? Well, how about "moron"? No-one today would think that calling someone a "moron" would be on the same level as "retarded", would they? It's because words change meaning. "Moron" stopped being a term for someone who had some sort of mental condition and instead is now a fairly mild word that means someone is just a bit stupid. Not impaired, no, but stupid. The word "faggot" has perfectly valid uses, too, but it has been used as a pejorative against homosexual men for many years. How about "bitch"? Also perfectly valid in certain forms of use.

I used to be against gay prides, even considering my position, but I've eased off on my dislike. Why? Because do you know what it is? It's gay people expressing themselves after centuries of oppression, fear, hatred and so on. It's bringing people together, allowing them to safely express their sexuality. You don't have to like them, but they're there, they're legal and they're nothing but fun.

But going to the point about attacks; I really, really don't care what happens in other situations around the world, because they're not relevant to this discussion at all. What do, say, the child soldiers in certain parts of Africa have to do with the homo- and transphobic attacks on people in the Western world? Nothing. Nada. Not a single thing. They're an issue, don't get me wrong, but they're not this issue. Transwomen (and transmen) live in fear of being outed and castigated, even if they pass, and that's the tip of the iceberg. A trans activist in Brazil was beheaded in a transphobic attack in the past year or so. The media constantly use sexuality as a way to divide people - I'm reminded of an incident where a radio DJ accidentally(?) broadcast the sounds of pornography over the airwaves. The media reported it, but made sure people knew that the pornography involved two men. Because 'straight' pornography would be okay, wouldn't it? Of course not.

If you want to believe there's no significant risk, well then, that's your right to do so. But let me say this. You're a straight, white male, yes? You. Have. No. Idea. There's many, many variations on that, largely the 'cisgender privilege', the 'white privilege', the 'male privilege' and so on. Basically, it goes like this: If you're straight, white and male, chances are you will not have ever encountered any sexist, racist or sexuality-based attacks upon your person. As in ones that attack what you are, not "lol ur so gay". An African American man, however, would be much more likely to encounter racist behaviour directed towards his person. You get the idea.

But, I've ranted enough. Had a long day at work, and you get the idea. This site has been nothing but accepting towards me and, judging by the variation of genders in this poll, others who are variant, and it honestly pains me to see people making comments like some of these yet not realise that what they've said could indeed, at the very least, put people off this site. I don't want a gay woman to read some of these posts and walk the other way. I don't want a transgendered man come here only to see people saying his love for men is "disgusting". That's not how this site rolls, regardless of the beliefs of its members.

 

I'm glad someone (or a few) people here have more balls than I do. You may have to think twice about being safe from proposition, Althea! ;3

But more to the point; language is the most democratic system on the planet. What a word means can completely change based on how the majority of people use it, even if it's "wrong." It only needs to catch on. The dictionary is a list of observations, not a rulebook.

Why should this be allowed? Because, well, language (and its components, words) has one purpose: to communicate. And communication is the exchange of ideas. So long as the words communicate an idea, and the right idea at that, it has done its job.

Further, while some may view "getting offended" as an immature behavior, remember that expecting them not to be offended is wanting them to conform to your standards of how to behave, as much as they're expecting you to conform to their standards of how to behave.

In short, no one can expect you to be gentle (or anything, for that matter - which is what I've mentioned before, I think). But it's nice to be gentle, especially to those who wish it. There's the golden rule - Do unto others as you'd have to yourself, but then there's the Platinum Rule, which is even better - Treat others as they'd like to be treated. To a point, obviously. I'm not saying you should let people walk all over you. But courtesy is courteous, and will generally lead to receiving it.

Unless you want to look like an ass. Some people are alright with that. Dare I say, some people are attracted to asses.

Yes, that's a double entendre.

 

By the Diggle Gods. I've been browsing gaming sites for years now and this is the first time anyone has ever said anything like this to me on one.

Well... I'm getting closer to winning this round of Internet Bingo now.

 

Hey there. Wanna do some fungling in The Charnel Cellar? I swear, it's clear of monsters.

Let's go on a Thrusty Quest together.

I've got the key to your Mysterious Portal.

Is that a Rocket Bolt in your Pocket Plane, or are you just speccing Tinkering?

Wanna watch me craft... some... uh, wands?

You must have picked Astrology, 'cause you're just heavenly.

 

I can't, I'm washing my hair tonight.