Dredmor 1.1.1 Changelog

Don't forget the lovely inifinite booze cycle which got nerfed in alchemy. </3

 

Here are the Dev posts re: Lucky Pick. http://community.gaslampgames.com/t...more-than-one-item-per-click.3387/#post-37044

Honestly, I think the implementation of Lucky Pick auto-unlocking everything (and still granting XP) is better all around- it frees up a skill and inventory slot. It reduces clicks with no downside. What's not to love?

Edit: Ninja'd by Daynab

 

Point taken, D. But it isn't like you'll forget to keep up enough lockpicks by occasional use. I've never abused lockpicks to lutefisk yet, but infinite lutefisk is probably too good for some to remain as is. But I thought that Nicholas's view on the matter was "If they want to be boring, why not?"

 

It's weird to me to read the word 'abuse' in a single-player game. Dredmor, if anything, is a game that is customizable to be played however you want to play it (want to load a cheat mod? be my guest).

In any case, lock picks alone are not going to win you the game. They may save you some time or grinding (if that's how you insist on playing). But it's not like anything you can do with lock picks you can't get a different way.

That said, I do like the change -- not because it's a nerf, but because it's simply more convenient.

 

Oh. Okay. I see what the change is. It's going to be good.
I can't complain about it.

Sorry for all the freaking out. I am so bad sometimes. And not the good kind of bad either. Like the Power Glove.

 

That change does sound amazing! It doesn't sound like it'll have any power implications besides the removal of fisking abuse, which wasn't really intended anyway. Quality of life changes are always great in my book.

I'm just worried that I'm not seeing any skill re-works in the changelog...

 

That is another thing. But seriously, if the issue with Chest of Evil weapons is that they are overshadowing other weapons, and that was their point to begin with, then instead of nerfing them like crazy let's just make using them risky or not always optimal, so that people wouldn't want to use them all the time. If players had to choose between using a normal weapon or one that would drain a health point or have a chance of temporarily debuffing them (or anything of the kind), then it would make choosing your equipment into a more tactical choice instead of a simple "let's get the one with the most damage and bonuses" thing.
That would also make dual wielding weapons with the corresponding skill tree less overpowered (using two Chest of Evil weapons would also double your chance to hurt yourself), and we would be able to balance weapon proficiency skill trees and Dual Wielding without including Chest of Evil weapons in our calculations, which would make doing it easier.

That is another thing entirely, and I reckon it would have to be put to a brainstorming.

The problem is, there would still be people who would get enough of them to wreck everything, and making something that is overshadowing everything just rarer isn't really going to fix it.
Which is why I proposed something that isn't a nerf, but rather a "your weapon is stronger, but you won't always want to use it" kind of thing.

I dare you to do that, David. Maybe I'll be lucky and they'll drop something cool.

You say that because you play on that difficulty setting. And I can tell you that if I had enough patience (which I don't really have here, because I don't care about abusing this skill), I would be able to do that on Going Rogue - it's just a matter of getting used to the difficulty setting you play on.
Sure, the monsters do spawn, but there's not nearly enough of them to force you to move unless you tried to kill Brax.

And come to think of it, if they made lockpicks "infinite" for people with this skill, we would have one inventory slot we wouldn't have to waste on them, so for us it wouldn't really be bad.

Don't mind it. We know it does appear to be a bad thing when you just glance at that issue, and you weren't that bad now.

 

I heard there was going to be a rework to both MoA and Shields because of 1) how similar they are and 2) they don't require the use of their respective gear to gain their benefits. Then there was talk of reworking the other weapon skills to be close to as awesome as daggers and polearms. But, a deadline's a deadline.

Anyways, I'm gonna go ahead and hop on Kazeto's argument for dealing with CoE weapons. It makes thematic sense, and it's also a good way to balance them. I vote in favor of "Lingering weakness" and "Lingering dullness" % debuffs. Necropain could be one for more powerful weapons.

After all, these weapons are infused with dark magicks, and coming into contact with them can't be very healthy, unless you have the proper or to deal with them (and yes, I feel the effects ought to be resistible.)

P.S. Someone oughta put CoE on the "Dredmor terms for new folk" list. I was lost as to what CoE was until this thread.

 

Kazeto, you do make a good point. And I spoke with Avatfoxar, the Captain of Lord Dredmor's 54th Brigade ,The Assault on Waffles, and he said him and his Arch-Diggle buddies will attack you sometime in the next few days.
You'll know they're coming because they hired a Cyberdemon to back them up.
I hope your dodging skill is at 100.

I'm just not a big fan of cursed weapons. Cursed weapons tend to be rather worthless. Or overpowered on the bad side.

And honestly, reducing the power of Chest of Evils seems like the lesser of two evils. No pun intended.
I mean, it's a 50% chance to get an item, would you want someone to get an item that is cursed, with a 50% chance to get an annoying monster?
I'm pretty sure that will just lead to people much more annoying than me, beating you up. Even though it's not nice to hit a woman, and I believe you are female, according to your signature.

Also, I'm fine with the Lucky Pick changing.

As it stands, it's not like 2 Chest of Evil weapons are going to make you kill everything in one hit.
Even on Elvish Easy, there are few times where I do an ungodly amount of damage over 100. Yes, I've hit 130 before, but that was from a whole lot of bonuses, and I don't believe I was wielding any chest of evil weapons.
I'm just saying, don't nerf Chest of Evil weapons, if they are not the only way to be overpowered.
Maybe you need to go to Nerfers anonymous?

I'm just trying to be a bit Devil's Advocate here. Don't shoot me.

 

I won't shoot you. My point here is, if Chest of Evil weapons were meant to be better than your normal run-of-the-mill armaments, nerfing them isn't really the way to go because however we nerf them, the fact that they are doing more damage still remains there. If we made it so that they are still powerful, but are something that you wouldn't want to use all the time, it would make using them into something more interesting; imagine you had a Chest of Evil weapon that drained one health point from you every time you killed something with it - sure, it is not something you would want to use all the time as that would make it more difficult to stay alive, but losing 4~5 health points to quickly slay a few problematic foes is better than losing 30~40 trying to hit them with a less potent weapon; another example, imagine a weapon that gave you 10 turns to hit something after you kill something with it or get a debuff on you - yeah, it's not something you would want to use for normal exploration as you'd be as crippled as a meat-eating Killer Vegan, but for monster zoos it would be perfect since there's seldom a time when you aren't hitting something after opening them.
With that, those weapons wouldn't have to be nerfed, since the random nature of the detrimental effects means you would get more specialized weapons, and thus ones that aren't as "abusable".

Heck, with that we can go further - we can change it so that equipment from one source (either Inconsequentia or tithing lutefisk) are immune to corruption, for example, so you'd have something that would do the reverse of what Chest of Evil weapons would end up doing - it would be slightly less potent than you would expect it to be, but in return, that equipment would be safer for you.

 

But giving them the ability to drain your health, or give you a debuff if you don't kill something, is a form of nerfing them.
I'm not sure how it could be considered not nerfing them.

Maybe I need to go look up the definition of Nerfing, but I'm sure reducing the ability to wield a weapon except in certain situations is considered a nerf.
Not to mention, you're adding more inventory management to people. Even with Conquest of the Wizardlands, that's not going to be the nicest idea.

I understand you want to make them a bit more unique, but they're not powerful enough on their own, to justify any curses on them.
You have a 50% chance to get them from an evil chest in the first place.
Giving them a crippling debuff, or even a weak one, or even a drain life effect is going to make chest of evil weapons about as useful as a broken watch.
No one would really want to ever use a cursed Chest of Evil weapon, and that's my main point, really, is that adding these curses is not the best idea.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel this way only lies madness. And not the good kind.

 

Okay, fine. Then let us say that I prefer this kind of nerf over a direct one.

And what I am proposing is not something that would make these weapons cruddy. What I am proposing is supposed to make them undesirable in some situations, so that you'd prefer (not "have to", but "prefer") to use different weapons in certain situations.
Losing one health point in exchange for being able to kill a monster in one or two hits instead of two or three hits? Sure, why not, on the later floors that one turn means being dealt a few points of damage so you are still better off with that, and the one situation where you don't want to use that sort of thing are monster zoos where that would negate your "one point of health per turn" regeneration from food.
The other one I proposed isn't as terrible as you say, either. The debuff wouldn't be as crippling as it appears, it would just be something you'd rather not have on you if you don't have to, so you wouldn't want to use that weapon when you are only encountering monsters occasionally, but when faced with a lot of them, that weapon would be great because for as long as you hit anything, you would never get said debuff.

Great. So let us just agree that I am a bad person and leave the issue of having to use one (or two if you have Dual Wielding, but really, is it that much if you don't have to carry all the ingots around?) inventory slot for a replacement weapon.

That 50% chance to get a monster does not make the weapons any weaker. Thinking otherwise is a misconception, because when you get the weapon, it is going to be just as powerful as it would've been even if you always got a weapon and never a monster.

It is also a misconception to think of what I proposed as "curses" (the way curses work in other rogue-likes) or as "crippling debuffs", and there is nothing I can do other than ignore your concerns if you will continue treating it as that from the get-go.

Either way, if you want to make a counter-argument, please take one of the above propositions in the form I presented them and deconstruct it to show why exactly is it bad (as in, "crippling", or anything of the sort).

 

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa!
Calm down there. There's no reason to be so hostile to me.

I didn't get what you meant. That's it. Now I do. Put down the chainsaws now.

Okay, you have good points.
I don't think they need your suggestion, but I'm not saying it's the worst idea ever in the entire history of the universe.
That would be Master of Orion 3.

I just apparently wasn't understanding you, and now I do. I'm sorry.
I really didn't mean to make you angry at me...
I'm really bad at explaining what I mean. That's my biggest problem. I'm sorry if you thought I was being hostile or mean. I wasn't! I just have trouble explaining myself sometimes.

 

I am not being hostile, David, so don't worry about that (if that makes you feel better, just blame it on my sleep deprivation acting up). And I didn't think you were being hostile either; it is just that, from my perspective, your argument amounted to "it is bad because it is bad", which is kind of, well, not an argument.

Either way, chainsaws are reserved for my family, so don't worry about it; if I sound like I'm being hostile, then I am just tired, and if I ever feel like you are being hostile, I'll tell you directly that you sound like that so you'll know for sure. And I wish you a nice [whatever time of the day it is for you], as I will not attempt to get some sleep.

 

Okay. You get some sleep. And I'm glad we're all understanding each other.
I can be denser than a Neutron star.

 

Hello,

My first post. Will the current saves be compatible with the new DLC?

Thanks!