What should a 'great build' be able to do?

Swords, maces, polearms, and axes in that order. And I forgot about Seismic Uppercut/Quake. Rogue Scientist, though, is all missiles and thus wouldn't work IIRC.

 

Is this core were talking or rebalance? You don't have to wast your time, I'll look it up, but I'm just not sure.

And acidical projector works if they are close to the bars. The first level of Polearms should also work.

The important thing is that this is one (small?) facet of a "complete adventurer" that's deffinitely there.

 

Those are all core and rebalance. If you're talking current core, you can add Grey Heron Takes Flight (unarmed), and Ki Cascade (staff), but those are both on their way out.

 

Hmm, Grey Heron only hits an area around you, and I've used it quite a bit, but it can't hit stuff that's behind bars (as far as I remember). Those things are 2 squares away, and the only activated attack ability I was aware of was the polearms long range stab thing (I thought that was the trompenant). I didn't know all those could work in the scenario of:

D
=
Y

D is a diggle, = are the bars, Y is you. Bars are immovable. Procs cant be triggered because you can't attack the bars. Assume also the thrown weapon homing satelite bug is fixed. what works?

 

For Rogue Scientist, the gas canister cloud will spread through bars (but not solid walls), and one, maybe two of the powers can deal damage to destructible walls (the acid spray and the 2nd last power with the 3x3 AoE).
As for clearing monster zoos, speed does not matter. What matters is being able to safely and reliably clear them, and do so without having to leave the level or go to the pocket dimension (both of which lead to the forfeiture of your bloody reward).

Clockwork Knight:Kill generic up close (armor patterns+threshing), Kill generic ranged (find bolt crafting mats), Handle high powered mobs (teleport and multiple ranged damage CDs), get away, get island items, incapacitate/knockback, crafting
Rogue Scientist:Kill zoos(gas canister, endless ammo), kill close ranged junk, kill ranged junk, handle high powered bosses (gas canister, knockback, then close a door), get island items(knockback, but no teleport), crafting.
Both allow for recipes with SOME trap affinity (but not enough without something else to add to it)

Of course, while the list of utility is very long, mileage is dependent on how many skills you have taken that get you tinkering and/or alchemy, rather than items found (with tinkering, both can build pretty much all they need).
Heaven for the crafter, less so for the chemically and mechanically impaired.

 

All of the abilities I mentioned before will still work because none of them are procs. They're all template abilities that can be activated through the bars, and they all stretch at least two squares in front of the player.

I did forget the acid spray from Rogue Scientist, good catch, FelixDrake.

 

One of the most essential things for me on any build is trap sight. Trap affinity I can take or leave, but I don't have the patience to 'one step' my way through the dungeon and I don't believe in mouse movement. Many of my runs have ended because of a simple misstep onto an unseen trap, so I try to have at least 2 trap sight built in on my characters.

 

Bars are definitely movable, BUT there has been a save game bug for at least a couple of versions now where loading a save sometimes makes them immovable.

(I used Grey Heron and Turn Demon to move bars just yesterday, so)

 

Oh, I've used both the heron and the buffalo throwing technique to move some bars, but not all bars are moveable, even if there isn't a monster right next to them. This is especially annoying when there's a "gargoyle trap on the eastern byway and 2 bars on the southern on + artifact room in the separate room" room. Sometimes there are missing bars which you can pass throush, sometimes you can move the bars, and sometimes there's just nothing you can do. Sometimes the wall between the bars is destructible, even, or so I think, but sometimes you just know there's an artifact there and unless you have a blink you can't reach it.

 

I've been trying (trying!) to abuse Move In Mysterious Ways + Summon Wyrmling with a Radiant Wizard. Because of the "aggro" effect on the pet plus the fact that I have two near-universally effective escapes, I should theoretically be melee-proof even while doing nothing to protect my squishy, squishy body.

I died when one of OneMoreNameless' bullshit monsters hit a knockback on my Wyrmling, thus making me its new target.

I am still fuming about this.

People like me shouldn't play characters who are made of glass.

I keep making these awesome builds, and then the one piece of the puzzle I'm missing just screws me over. Like the time I had a solid dozen zap apples saved away in my pocket dimension, but no booze, and no porta-still.

 

That's one step closer to the Badass List in my book

 

What, OneMoreNameless is one step closer because of how he trolled me?

 

Ayup.

 

Monsters need to have necronomiconomics. Including self-pain. RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT RIFT

 

I personally try to use concussion bombs(sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, it might depend on when I pull one of the levers). And if that doesn't work, either Move in Mysterious Ways or Knightly Leap. I wouldn't recommend Knightly Leap unless you're making a Dodge build(which I'm doing for my Pure Rogue build).

 

This is one for the "come bitch about skills" thread. The teleporting dodge gives only a slight advantage for being (very OFTEN) a liability, and then the capstone is a tragically dead level.

 

Already addressed -- see changelog.

Also, maybe we can get back on topic?

 

Here is my list for a good build.

• Able to kill dreadmor
• Able to level up (via killing monsters)
• Has a panic button (invisibility and healing, teleport and healing, floor up)

Everything after that is just gravy.

 

Yeah, that's the best list for this one can make.

 

When it comes to letting you cheese your way out of trouble, Magical Law is ridiculous. You get inaccessible item grabbing, bad monster type elimination, muting, uncursing, heavy-duty spell reflection (it's like you have a third arm and it's holding a Mirror Shield), and timer reset (overclocking any super moves you happen to have in other skill lines, ones which have been balanced on the basis of a very long timer). Literally every point you spend gives you a new super-power and none of them ever become obsolete (except maybe the item grab one, since most characters will eventually get a teleport skill).

The really scary thing is that unlike most utility skills, nothing in ML is timered. The flexibility to use the same utility skill several times in quick succession is enormously powerful.