I'm starting to work on my first-ever serious writing project (I'll provide my Fimfiction.net profile if you want to see my not-serious writing projects). And after all the work I've seen here, I figured I'd dump my ideas and see what you guys think. I'd also like to start a playtesting group since I'm just about up to the point where all I need is specific spells and such. Read this, think about what kind of character you'd want to play if I were to start a playtesting group here, think of specific spells you'd like to see, point out the glaring blunders I know I've made, etc. Total, almost-ready-to-run rules can be found here. Abridged introductions are in this post. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1of5B0HHxD-8nMSaJyP1DashkeZ2JCI5jNpCm1z1wYTU/edit Spoiler: Introduction Magic is everywhere, which means that every culture in the world understands magic differently. Wizards reciting incantations from dusty spellbooks are only one tiny faction out of thousands--not far from the wizard's tower, an astrologer is checking his sky-charts and trying to predict what magic will be granted to him in the coming days, an explorer is unloading a pack full of rare seeds which he will plant in his magical garden and harvest spells from when the time is right, and a dancer is launching herself into the soaring finale to her latest and most beautiful enchantment. What is magic to you? Where can you find it? What can you do with it? What does it look like, how does it feel, what sound does it make when it vibrates against the fabric of the world? Spoiler: Attributes and Core Mechanics Characters have 6 stats, each of which contributes to a type of defense. Strength/Quickness (Body) Knowledge/Cleverness (Mind) Presence/Attunement (Spirit) Almost all combat actions are "spells." The spell either tells you which stat is your "attack roll" or gives you a choice. For those of you familiar with 4th Edition, this is just about the exact same idea. Actions that aren't spells simply use the relevant stat--Quickness for roguey things, Knowledge for remembering things, Strength for arm wrestling. If your character is exceptionally trained in such a skill, you can take a feat for that instead of one of the feats that would advance your magical abilities. All rolls are the total of 3d6 +- modifiers. This way, the difference between a strong and a weak character starts off moderate but scales very sharply--an advantage of +2 is significant but reasonable; an advantage of +5 is totally insurmountable. How successful I was in this is questionable, but some systems in this game are meant to run in quick, clean, and fun ways. Spoiler: Channeler The Channeler draws power from upon outside sources. The astrologer is a Channeler. Other Channelers might pray to their gods or cast magic based on what the weather currently is. One of my friends called this guy the "wildmage." When he wants to cast a spell, he draws a card from a deck. That card is the spell he gets to cast--he can either use it immediately or save it and try again next round, building up a "hand" of options for the battle. The contents of that deck are a matter for him and the GM to discuss at character creation. It might be a deck of 60 that's always the same, or he might get a randomly generated one every day, or he might have one for clear skies and one for overcast. Sample Feats: +You may draw 3 cards and choose 1, but you can't save it; you must cast it immediately. +Instead of drawing a new card, you may discard your hand and then draw the same number. +You can decide before drawing a card that you will cast it immediately. Any damage or healing effects on it are increased, but the spell has a small chance of hitting a random target. +When you cast a spell, you can also discard two cards from your hand in order to add a randomly chosen card from a separate "powerup" deck to the effects of the spell. Some of them might be trouble (this spell also gets cast against any other target in a 30-foot radius) and a few of them have the potential for hilarious disaster (Cast this spell again in all four cardinal directions). +Instead of drawing a spell, you can draw a powerup and hold it in your hand. Spoiler: Shaper The Shaper performs magic, creating it with skill and knowledge. I call her the "Dancer" because that's how I envision her spellcasting mechanic. Aside from music/dancing, the Shaper might use power words or martial arts. Your spells work on a system sort of like the "FUS RO DAH" powers or the casting system in Magicka. For example, you might cast [Beam] [Knockback] or [Debuff] [Water]. You also have special "words" that can only be cast a limited number of times per day, i.e. [Storm] [Fire] [Eternity] which might create a firestorm that lasts for three times the duration, or [Bolt] [Lightning] [Swarm] which casts a lightning bolt at any number of targets. Unlike the others, the Shaper must learn magic rather than finding it. As such, her words are organized into "tiers," and she automatically learns a few new basic spells when she levels up. Sample feats: +Learn a new special word. +Learn two new normal words that aren't at your highest available tier. +Rather than using a special word, you may cast two spells simultaneously. +Once per day, you may cast 3 special spells in a row, but they must all have different special words, and different words on Word 1. Spoiler: Gatherer The Gatherer literally carries magic and uses it when needed. Affectionately called the "Wizard" for his similarity to a D&D wizard. The guy who was gathering magic seeds for his garden is a Gatherer. Another example might be an alchemist or "blue mage." He is the only one who does not have unlimited spells; he must find or buy them. He has the ability to duplicate his favorite spells, but for one reason or another he's limited in this ability while on the go. In much the same fashion as a D&D wizard's "metamagic," he can modify the spells he's carrying. For example, he might have them deal extra damage or have a longer duration. Sample feats: +Increase how many spells you can duplicate each day. +Increase how many of your duplicated spells can be modified or high-tier spells. +Every day, you may take one of your spells and add +1 to one of its damage or healing effects, or give it 1 extra duration. +Every day, you may change which stat is used for one of your spells' attack rolls. You can't modify the same spell with two different abilities twice in one day. +Every day, you may take one component from a spell i.e. a single damage or healing effect, and move it onto another spell. Spoiler: universal feats +Gain +1 to any defense. +Gain +1 to defense against Strength/Quickness attacks. +Gain +1 whenever you attack with one of your attributes. +Gain +1 whenever you do a non-combat thing with one of your attributes. +Gain +1 whenever you do a non-combat thing that's related to, for example, your extensive experience as a pickpocket, or your formal training in martial arts, or whatever.
i've always been a fan of spellcasting by mixing and matching tags (be they runes, words, whatever.) Avatar Underworld II was my first "real" game with a system like that (the system that Ruigi hearkens back to with his Bet In Sanct whatnot from Runecaster, and I've never stopped loving that method of doing magic. Also, the Death Gate Cycle.
Honestly speaking, I'm not fond of playing any of the three classes you presented. But that is to be expected, my group always wanted me to play wizards and such even though I prefer rogue characters because I'm the one in my group capable of playing such, so the prospect of playing a mostly magical character is something that makes me want to say "ugh". Heck, even in the last campaign I played as a player, after finding out that the party is in serious need of a magic-capable character, I ended up playing a "spellsword" type of character with most of his spells centred on buffing, shielding, and healing, instead of the usual attack spells (he only had two combat spells, one ranged and one melee, and the rest was all support). But, if I were to give you an opinion that would not be biased as much as it normally could be, I would say this: Channelers are pretty much siege engines of the three classes. They might end up getting useful spells and being almost as powerful as gatherers could possibly be, or they might end up drawing not so useful spells and being relegated to the role of support. It all depends on luck, and the class might be fun to play on its own, depending on how prepared the party is for a bad luck streak. Shapers are the characters most people would end up playing. Because they offer a degree of flexibility with their powers that does not cost any resources (for as long as you only cast normally, I don't see any limits there), and their effects are something they have control over. It's pretty much the "core" class there, one that needs to be in every party unless the group has issues with masochism. And that is the class I would go for, too, if I were to play one of these. Gatherers are a class that holds a lot of potential, enough to break the game, but is very limited unless the party is prepared for them. The ability to modify spells and copy them means that for as long as they use their resources semi-sparingly, they will at some point reach a singularity of magical power, and it will be difficult for the GM to control it unless either there is a hard limit on the bonuses or the GM is sadistic enough to force them to use up everything they have (at which point most people playing with gatherers would feel like throwing a temper tantrum, I might add, because nobody likes being forced to reset their characters when they get stronger gradually). The "no experience point thingy, levels when GM says they level up" thing is also something I could talk about for quite some time. But really, that is because when I worked on an RPG system I went into the direction opposite from yours - it was all skill-based with experience points used to improve skills and stats but there were no levels whatsoever. Whichever works, works, and it all depends on who is playing.
Putting a power limit on Gatherers is piss easy. Just arbitrarily say that the maximum amount of enhancement they can put on a spell scales with their level. I have another idea, though. I forgot to mention this, but they can't duplicate their prized uber-spell that they've saved and haven't used since the beginning of the game. They can only duplicate spells that have only been enhanced a couple of times--that limit can be increased by feats, of course. So to save up to a "singularity" where they have a solid bagful of horrifying death spells, they have to get by with basic stuff--essentially, they don't take any advantage of one of the only advancement mechanics that their class gets. If they want to build up one super spell, that's fine, but if they want to build four or five, that's a lot of power that they're not using at all. I actually think I'll enjoy describing how it blows away not only the villain but also the wall behind him and most of the ceiling and floor, causing the party to have to run for their lives as the room collapses, leaving nothing but a pile of rubble where the inner sanctum of evil was. This does seem to encourage that strategy a little TOO strongly, though. Maybe I should think of a way to make it still possible, but more punishing. As for "no experience points," I just think experience points should stay in computer games and away from the tabletop. Calculating EXP, keeping track of EXP, spending EXP on wands and shit, and people leveling up at different times, it's all bullshit. In this system you "level up" in the form of gaining feats. And you get a new feat when the GM says you do. Simple. I'm toying with a "counterspelling" system whereby players can, a limited number of times, make a roll to attempt to cancel an enemy spell. I'm also thinking about a rule that Shapers have to use a different spell every round until the fourth, special spell. So they need to decide on four spells that are right for the encounter, not just one.
This is pretty much 100% ready to go except that I'm going to have to talk about Gatherer and Channeler spells on the spot with the people who want to play those. I'm gonna update the OP with the google doc. This is me trying to garner interest in playtesting. Except... this is a rather small and tight-knit community so I'm not reaching many people. Maybe you guys would enjoy doing the roleplaying and the system-messing-with anyhow?
If you really want to test it there and nobody else volunteers for that, I can try playing as a Gatherer. As I already said above, I'm sort of sick of playing magical classes, but then again this is supposed to only be about such and I sort of do have some experience with playing as wizard-esque characters so I might be able to provide you with any feedback, as opposed to none of it. Though honestly, if you end up playtesting it here you can make me play any class, in case either one had a shortage of playtesters (but looking at the choices above it would appear that Gatherer is the one with the highest risk of that happening).
DEATH GATE CYCLE wHERE? I wish there was more . I'll probably have a look at it and see if I can find any glaring "huehuehue" points tomorrow.
How would the playtest be done? Forums, Skype, Gametable, Carrier Pidgeon...? System looks pretty fun. Only thing that jumps out is that the Channeler's "blind cast for a bonus" feat doesn't look like it needs the "randomly hit a random target" penalty, unless the bonus is "triple" or something. I think it will get penalized often enough by pulling heals when the team is at full health, earthquakes while the party is airborne (or in the Taj Mahal or something you don't really want to damage...), fireballs vs a dragon etc, that it doesn't also need the chance to fireball yourself/heal the dragon/earthquake a random target. The class's base mechanic is random, and adding a random penalty to the "make your randomness more random" feat...hmm. I think the "I was forced to throw a fireball when our wooden boat was attacked by a squid but hey it did bonus damage" is more fun than "I was forced to throw a fireball while on a wooden boat AND forced to throw it at the captain instead of the squid...for bonus damage". Double Edged Sword vs Quadruple Edged Sword... Another feat idea would be "draw 3 cards then end your turn"; the "draw 3 cast one now" gives similar options faster, where this would trade power now for options later if you expect the fight to go long (or change partway through; if you're fighting on top of a rickety wooden tower, it might be handy to have a Feather Fall and a water spell in your hand...) *EDIT: As far as which class I would play...in the past I have played a Wild Mage (ie Channeler), but that Wild Mage also carried a jillion scrolls (ie the other two). The gatherer looks the least fun to me personally because I already tend to have a problem with packrat/"too awesome to use" syndrome and saving up for that "one big spell" to one-shot the boss doesn't have as much payoff as "wow we could solve this puzzle if only somebody had the Summon Lukewarm Eggplant spell"; so I think the Shaper would be best for on-the-fly obscure spells, the Channeler best for "well I drew this random spell, not what I would have chosen but how can I use it best right now or save it" while the Gatherer seems like a less versatile Shaper who can once per decade drop an Acidic Adamantine Meteor of Lichbane +7. So yeah, Channeler or Shaper would get my vote Shaper's most versatile, but Channeler also rewards some creativity as long as the risk/reward ratio is sufficient.
I suggest forums for play-testing. Gametable is fine with me, but I have no carrier pigeons I could use for that and I don't have Skype because it annoys me. And we are all here on the forum anyway.
Forums or Mumble. Mumble costs 18 whopping cents per person per month, with a minimum of ten slots for people. But it is a good and solid server that will remain up forever if you want. Otherwise the forums are free and every bit as reliable. https://commandchannel.com/
Maybe it's acceptable that Gatherer is the least fun out of the three--he's made for people who are attracted to the idea of carrying around tons of little options, and tinkering with their stuff, and having that one "Plan B" surprise that they've saved since the beginning of the game. I'll try tom increase the tinkering aspect rather than making it just a slow build-up of power. Perhaps the ability to weaken spells in one way while improving them in others?
From the descriptions it seems like Shaper is the better "tinker with tons of options" tree, since you have a bunch of words and every turn you choose which of the X times Y combinations to use, occasionally multiplying by Z with one of your super words. Gatherer you have to choose spells in advance, have to avoid casting some so that you keep some to clone/boost for future days, etc. Channeler has less planning but more boosting. I'm just not seeing the tradeoff unless [water] [debuff] spell is just -1 accuracy while the Gatherer has a -3 accuracy spell (that they have to prepare in advance, avoid casting too often to keep some "seeds" for the next day, and splice unused pieces together so they have a "-999 accuracy so you actually auto-crit yourself" spell to cast 3 years later), and the Channeler has a 2% chance of getting a -4 accuracy spell (and a 2% chance of Volcano, 2% chance of Purify Food and Drink etc). If Shaper is indeed "you can do anything anytime but it sucks unless you spend a special couple-per-day-word" then gatherer would look better; just with no damage numbers or spell lists right now Shaper looks a lot more versatile.
Well, I'm assuming that you don't start play with all of the relevant tags in your knowledge base. More like "Pick 2 of earth, fire, water, air, sound, light, thunder, and poison; pick 3 of target, storm, bolt, missile, spread, cone, or self; pick 3 of buff, debuff, damage, transmute, move, sculpt, or destroy; pick 2 of (superwords here)."
A bit of random chance would fit the theme too. When you sow seeds for any plant, you do not always get a good plant. Sometimes a hearty plant will be weaker than normal. Sometimes stronger too. And this can have altogether different effects from the general plan of the player. I suggest that as they level they get better chances of predictable changes that fit what they intend. But it should never be guaranteed. And if they are working for a long time to make a super weapon, it should be superior, but also exceptionally risky. (Meaning it would have too much power to be picky about what it devastates.) They can potentially make Armageddon seeds, but they would be surely killed if they dared to use them. Perhaps that would be a good option to balance things out? Binding a bit of their own life and/or health to strengthen their seeds beyond what is normal? *Edit* My ISP is still being a *Expletive Deleted* today. I did not see the two other posts until after I posted my reply... *Another Edit* I voted for gatherer. Simply since no-one else has yet. I have some patience, and I can play the Gimped class if that is what it turns out to be.
Great! With a Gatherer, I have people who are happy to play every class. With Essence as Shaper assuming he actually wants to play and Omni as Gatherer assuming he actually wants to play, the rest of y'all are free to play either Channeler or Shaper. I'm not totally sure that this would actually help the "do more than just slowly build up power" concept. The same goes for risky spells although it would certainly be cool to build in things like "any Gatherer spell that deals more than 8 damage also deals half that damage in a really big AoE" or "any Gatherer spell with a really nasty debuff also deals damage over time and costs health to cast." To start talking about sample spells for testing, it'll help my creative process if you guys think of what your concept for your "culture" is i.e. "I'm a Channeler who uses the spirits of fallen heroes" or "I'm a Gatherer who wears religious shit all over my armor and kite shield, like a Space Marine." Using an idea I already mentioned is fine. Fun fact: What you decide on is almost certainly going to end up being a canon "sample culture" when I turn this into a format worthy of being distributed.
That's what it looked like since you learn words every level; but even with your example, that's what, 21 combinations (tripled by superwords X times per day) to choose from every turn? 7 more if you can mix the same category? ("buff+transmute" instead of just fire/earth/spread/cone/self+transmute). 8 more if you can Fire+Fire like in Magicka? And a feat that lets you cast 2 per turn instead of superwording. Meanwhile the Gatherer has a bag with 2 potatoes, a turnip, 4 "magic missle" acorns and a rutabega; he'd like to save at least one of the potatoes to splice more +stun onto his Rutabega which he is saving for the final boss, and needs at least one acorn to Copy tomorrow. So he's got a potato, a turnip, and 3 acorns he can actually use. And he chose those when he woke up this morning, much like a DnD wizard, rather than on-the-fly like a the Sorcerer/Magicka shaper. The Channeler has the Pointed Stick from 4 turns ago, the Acid Breathing Shark he declined to use last turn, and whatever he pulls this turn, be it one to add to the pile, one boosted must-use, three use-one-drop-two, etc. These can be further (randomly) boosted by feats. So unless the Gatherer has a REALLY BIG bag or the Shaper only learns 1 word per level, the Shaper will always have the most choices each turn. To compensate, the Potato should be stronger than Earth+Debuff; I'm not sure how an Earth Debuff Swarm should compare to a Tinkered Potato. Meanwhile the Channeler's 30 Foot Falling Anvil That Also Zombifies Tulips should beat them both...since there's a 99.837% chance that it won't be in his hand at all, and his hand is smaller than a vegetable bag or dictionary. Given enough splices the Potato could pass even that, once. Now if you could tinker on-the-fly, being able to trade potato range/damage/accuracy for accuracy/damage/range would give the Gatherer more options and more power. But it's fine if the Shaper has the most options, so long as those options aren't consistently better than the limited pre-planned options of the Gatherer (or the even more limited UNplanned option(s) of the Channeler). Gatherer doesn't have to be "gimped" or "unfun" at all *EDIT: Ninja'd Yeah I'd be fine with any of the three classes. Despite my remarks, Gatherer is fine so long as the spells are worth the wait; my Wizards and Druids always carry bags of scrolls, and my Eyebrowed Heroes always carry bags of potions and bolts and Kronged Boots with . Shaper is fine; even if the spells are weak and you don't learn every single word, the massive amount of options to choose each turn allows for lots of strategy. And Channeler just looks fun, as you try to find the best way to use a Limestone Badger while fighting on a rope bridge and you were hoping to draw a Everyone But The Bad Guy Can Now Fly spell instead
Yes. I want to play. I totally want to be a Shaolin Monk who uses martial arts to cast spells and who has a funny and/or cool verbal cue for each of his tags. I.E. "Flying Monkey" for [air], "Gibbering Hyena" for "earth", "rends the" for [destruction], "broadly" for [cone]. That way I can totally flip out and shout "Gibbering Hyena Rends the Fields Broadly!" while stomping and posing and the result will be a ripple-tremor that spreads out from my foot and knocks things over. For example. Also, turbo is right in everything he said above.
I love that Shaper Monk idea Essence haha! Lessee, depending on what the least people choose, I'll be either: "Mad Prophet" Channeler: "I SEE A YELLOW BUTTERFLY! IT IS A SIGN THAT I SHOULD THROW LIGHTNING AT THE NEAREST 3 PEOPLE!" *looks around* "I shall um...save that for a moment." *moves farther away from friends* "THAT ROCK IS LESS ROUND THAN THE TWO NEXT TO IT! IT IS A SIGN THAT I SHOULD TURN THAT BAD GUY INTO A DINGO! But yet, the call of the butterfly still implores that I throw lightning..." "Tattooed" Shaper: One for each word. If I want to shield myself in flames, the Dragon on my shoulder roars and the Hexagon on my ankle spins. "Ghost Speaker" Gatherer. Each morning I meditate, calling the souls of the departed, elemental spirits, or eldritch horrors to float in a cloud behind me, where I can transfer energy from one to another. That Frost Wolf who's been in the cloud for 7 years? Yeah he's gonna bite pretty hard.
Hell bloody no. I mean for Potato to be only marginally better than Earth+Debuff--like maybe it does extra tricks on the side that are going to be useless half the time. The main reason for this is that, yes, I'm trying to figure out a way by which the Gatherer would have a ridiculously big bag, maybe saving one of each thing in case he wants to copy it later. Like the D&D Wizard, he should have a spell for anything imaginable plus situations that will probably never happen. Maybe if he also gets some copied spells that are random, and he just uses the copy slots to make sure he has what he wants? However, I sort of want a collectible aspect to him. My thought is that unlike the Wizard he sticks to basic solutions initially and will like it when he gets weird things to add to his collection, like a summon or "entangle your feet" spell whereas before he was just throwing fireballs. Maybe there's a hard-wired system in place for this, like "you may choose x spells from the Exotic Spells list that you will see in the wild more often." Or have it so that the wizard has whatever he wants at the beginning including odd exotic stuff, but only chooses from a limited number of different ones, Good point about tinkered spells vs special-word spells. That's a tough question. The way things are now, there is basically no chance that the Channeler won't be able to do this. The question is how often the Channeler will have a Smallpox-Inducing Poison Cloud Suicide Bomber Lemon that he's willing to use. I am currently thinking that he should have at least one feat--maybe one with moderate-heavy prerequisite feats--that do basic sorts of enhancements except they do it twice--thus increasing the rate by which his feats pump up how many only slightly enhanced spells he's packing. In my eyes it would work for him to get a lot of stuff that's stronger than basic Shaper spells. Breaks flavor more than I want it to. A lot of Channeler tricks are the same way--they give the Channeler the ability to ponder his options rather than "this is what I've got, stand back." The original plan was to make it so that Channeler's feats just make it so that what he does use is bigger and badder. However, having Channelers decide between greater command over whatever it is they channel vs. being stronger and crazier might be a fun thing. Also, the whole thing of using cards makes it so that pretty much nothing short of search-your-library-for-X effects will break Channeler's flavor. Your spell names will be along the lines of "Lemur Stance" or "Storm of Turkey Slash-Kicks." The type of technique, then the aspect, with a modifier once in a while. This should work very, very nicely.
I am liking this more and more as I think of it. I will be the Gatherer. A Psuedo-Quasi Homanid vegetable who believes in the Ultimate and Undeniable Superiority of Plants over blooded creatures like mammals and reptiles and insects. (Insanity is a good characteristic for anyone who holds this much power at a whim, but is weak as Hell without other plants.) I think a minor revision of the Gatherer class is needed. Make them able to cast some basic damage spell with very low versatility when they have no plants to use for the purpose. For example, they can cast a simple 1d4 attack of a random element without anything. It is always hitting, like D&D Magic Missiles, but does not improve without significant effort. (Like a Plant based Ceremony to channel the elements easier.) This would make me capable of still defending myself and finishing off weak opponents without expending the last Plants I have on hand. I am welcome to criticism and other ideas. Is this still too weak, or does it still need more help? If it needs more help, consider a DM only roll of the dice whenever I would otherwise die. The die roll determines if the Nature of the world saves my sorry ass or not. Be generous, but do not make me immortal. (You as the DM would have to decide how exactly Nature saves me if it does.) For my character, presuming we are getting ready to play test this, I intend to focus on support and defense spells. Anytime I d not use them, they are focused for better use in the future. Please do bear in mind that I may not understand how you want things to work, so if I seem to have an obvious move and I do not take it, a firm kick in the butt with a message telling me what I *Really* did while hallucinating on Nature's 'Shroom gift would be a great way to get me on the right track. My character will be such a devoted Plant lover that he/she/it thinks itself to *BE* a Plant. I refuse to eat meat, but will consume plants only after blessing them. I will also bless any plants the party encounters and may at DM discretion be able to do wondrous things with plants. (If for instance we missed an obvious path and think we must cross a chasm, I may be able to make a tiny sprout form a solid line to the other side that we can climb and traverse this way as needed. Anytime there is a serious saving throw to be made, if there is *ANY* Plant life in the area, I should get a minor, but not all encompassing bonus. This can be explained in many ways. All of which I leave to you. Any time we are in a sterile area devoid of Plants I should weep seemingly without cause. And receive a malus on any saving throws. The only way to negate this, but not to turn it into a bonus is to perform a ceremony where I sow a Seed of any sort. Making the area "Blessed" in my eyes, but not really the same as a Natural area. Sound good or bad? Your call.
