Essential Core Skills Rebalance II: Electric Bungalow

Ok, this needs a doublepost, for importance.
I started working on the Fungal Arts petbased remastering, but I've encountered problems.
Basically I've changed how Toxic Spore Cloud and Mini Toxic Spore Cloud work: instead of directly damaging and confusing everyone but the player, it first search for Symbiontic Toadstool or Swampborn buffs. The first (symbiontic toadstool) is casted by the player, while the second (swampborn) should automatically casted on summoned slimes and shrooms upon casting the summoning spell. The Swampborn buff isn't casted, anyway, so it doesn't work.
If the target doesn't have one of those buffs, it take the bad effect from the spore cloud: it takes damage and it gets confused. This works, anyway.
If the target has one of those buffs, it takes the good effect from the spore cloud: a heal over time, and another buff named Spores Everywhere, which lasts 10 turns. The spore cloud should cast the buff on the targets every turn, so it should last 10 turns after exiting the spore cloud (so it could last, at max, the duration of the spellmine + 10 bonus turns). This doesn't work, too.

This is what I was able until now, but it seems that the good effects doesn't ever work.

Spoiler: A frightful code wall

Code:

<spell name="Spores Everywhere" type="target">
<effect type="removebuffbyname" name="Spores Everywhere"/>
<buff usetimer="1" time="10" allowstacking="0" icon="skills/rogue/fungus5_64.png" smallicon="skills/rogue/fungus5_32.png">
        <targetHitEffectBuff percentage="25" name="Mini Toxic Spore Cloud" />
        </buff>
    </spell>
 
<spell name="Toxic Spore Cloud bad effect" type="targetfloor" >
    <effect type="confuse" amount="8" self="0" sprite="sprites/sfx/psionic_generic/psionic_generic" frames="5" framerate="100" centerEffect="1" />
    <effect type="damage" toxic="3" toxicF=".1" primaryScale="5" affectscaster="0" />
  </spell>
 
<spell name="Mini Toxic Spore Cloud bad effect" type="targetfloor" >
  <effect type="confuse" amount="8" self="0" sprite="sprites/sfx/psionic_generic/psionic_generic" frames="5" framerate="100" centerEffect="1" />
  <effect type="damage" toxic="2" toxicF=".25" primaryScale="5" affectscaster="0" />
  </spell>
 
<spell name="Toxic Spore Cloud good effect" type="targetfloor">
    <effect type="heal" amount="3" amountF=".1" primaryScale="5" affectscaster="0" />
    <effect type="trigger" spell="Spores Everywhere" />
  </spell>
 
<spell name="Toxic Spore Cloud"
        type="targetfloor"
        icon="skills/spells/lethian_mist32.png"
        mineTimer="18"
        mineUseGlints="1"
        minePermanent="1"
        mineGlintDensity="8"
        mineSpritePNGSeries="sprites/sfx/smokepuffA/smokepuffA"
        mineSpritePNGFirst="0"
        mineSpritePNGNum="8"
        mineSpritePNGRate="120"
        mine="1"
        mineradius="3" >
    <description text="Creates clouds of highly-confusing toxic spores."/>
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffonnottrigger="1" requirebuffonnottriggername="Symbiotic Toadstool" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud bad effect" />
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffonnottrigger="1" requirebuffonnottriggername="Swampborn" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud bad effect" />
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffontrigger="1" requirebuffontriggername="Symbiotic Toadstool" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud good effect" />
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffontrigger="1" requirebuffontriggername="Swampborn" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud good effect" />
    <anim sprite="sprites/sfx/smokepuffbig/smokepuffbig" frames="6" sfx="darkmagic" centerEffect="1"/>
  </spell>
 
<spell name="Mini Toxic Spore Cloud"
      type="targetfloor"
      icon="skills/spells/lethian_mist32.png"
      mineTimer="6"
      mineUseGlints="1"
      mineGlintDensity="8"
      mineSpriteDrawOrder="1"
      mineSpritePNGSeries="sprites/sfx/smokepuffA/smokepuffA"
      mineSpritePNGFirst="0"
      mineSpritePNGNum="8"
      mineSpritePNGRate="120"
      mine="1"
      mineradius="1"
      minePermanent="1"
      minesMustBeUnobstructed="0" >
  <description text="Creates clouds of highly-confusing toxic spores."/>
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffonnottrigger="1" requirebuffonnottriggername="Symbiotic Toadstool" spell="Mini Toxic Spore Cloud bad effect" />
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffonnottrigger="1" requirebuffonnottriggername="Swampborn" spell="Mini Toxic Spore Cloud bad effect" />
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffontrigger="1" requirebuffontriggername="Symbiotic Toadstool" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud good effect" />
    <effect type="trigger" requirebuffontrigger="1" requirebuffontriggername="Swampborn" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud good effect" />
  <effect type="confuse" amount="8" self="0" sprite="sprites/sfx/psionic_generic/psionic_generic" frames="5" framerate="100" centerEffect="1" />
  <effect type="damage" toxic="2" toxicF=".25" primaryScale="5" affectscaster="0" />
  <anim sprite="sprites/sfx/smokepuffbig/smokepuffbig" frames="6" sfx="darkmagic" centerEffect="1"/>
  </spell>
 
 
 
<spell name="Swampborn" type="target">
<buff usetimer="0" allowstacking="0" icon="skills/rogue/fungus6_64.png" smallicon="skills/rogue/fungus6_32.png">
        </buff>
    </spell>
 
<spell name="Summon Slime" type="targetfloor" downtime="60" icon="skills/rogue/fungus1_32.png">
    <description text="By studying the lore of the Slime-herders from the Mushroom Jungles of Smome, you gain the ability to summon a fiercly loyal Slime Mold." />
    <effect type="summon" monsterType="Summon Slime" />
    <effect type="trigger" spell="Swampborn" />
    <anim sprite="sprites/sfx/smokepuffbig/smokepuffbig" frames="6" framerate="100" sfx="small_spell" centerEffect="1" />
    <effect type="trigger" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud" />
  </spell>
<spell name="Summon Mushroom Beast" type="targetfloor" downtime="90" icon="skills/rogue/fungus4_32.png">
    <description text="As the Mi-go once did (and shall again), you can summon living weapons of fungus to serve your will." />
    <effect type="summon" monsterType="Summon Mushroom-beast" />
    <effect type="trigger" spell="Swampborn" />
    <anim sprite="sprites/sfx/smokepuffbig/smokepuffbig" frames="6" framerate="100" sfx="magic" centerEffect="1" />
    <effect type="trigger" spell="Toxic Spore Cloud" />
  </spell>

What I need to know, first of all, is this: it's possible to make spellmines trigger spells, and then search for buffs for triggering/nottriggering?

 

Sadly, requirebuffontrigger always checks the player, regardless of the target...so this will either need to be much more complex or rethought entirely.

 

So sad hearing this.
And what about buffing the target floor where the summon should be summoned? I cannot make it works too.

 

Look up the Substitution spell in Ninjitsu; it works. Try adding amount="1" to the trigger that triggers the buff.

 

Somehow, I felt it could be this. Tomorrow more testing.
If this goes, anyway, I can somehow fix and differentiate pets, based on the power of the skill they are linked.

 

My gut reaction to the penalty on dual wield is that it's a bit steep in some cases. Removing most of the from weapon skills mitigates the one-stop solution the skill has now, but many times I simply take dual wielding with no weapon skill so as not to be tied down by the RNG. Negative reinforcement doesn't seem like a good driving force to level up a skill, that just makes me think I'm forced to put all the points in to get the "real" skill. Perhaps a smaller penalty to but slight buffs to the other skills in the line would provide more of a reward/incentive to level it, than just nuking stats and making me consider taking perception for utility AND countering the negatives from dual wield.

 

The problem in this case is that without said penalties it becomes a "take it and don't level it up because it's already plenty powerful" sort of thing. Dual Wielding could increase your damage output with melee weapons by 30~50%, and that is with just one skill tree with no points put into it, and that is why it was changed so that now it still increases the damage (no way to go around that) but the damage is uncertain unless you actually put points into it.

 

I certainly agree that you get a big benefit for free as dual wield is now. I just think that having a flat heavy-handed penalty seems off-putting. It's also not very interesting.

Just to throw out an idea... say instead of a flat stat penatly, only having one rank in the skill gave you a chance on attack to give yourself a fumble debuff called "Curse these fat fingers!" that gave you a penalty to or or or or even . You still get the immediate benefit from the skill, but adding more points reduces fumble chance, like you're actually getting better at dual wielding, while keeping the damage a bit more unreliable, as is the intent. This method adds a bit more flavor and randomness without essentially placing a stat wall to climb immediately upon taking the skill.

 

I also forgor to mention in the changelog that the formerly-empty a3rd level of Dual Wield has now been changed to Inverse Minion Law -- buffs you more the more enemies are around you. So there are other solid Bennies to leveling it than just eliminating the EDR penalty. As Kazeto said, the penalty doesn't mitigate the benefits -- it's still a solid. Choice for a warrior, doubly so a Rogue...it's just not a total no brainer anymore; you have to ask yourself if your build can support it -- and you should (have to.)

 

The idea is good, but there is no way to do it like that now.

 

Place a dot on the target that keeps the player informed of its state (i.e. gives a one-turn buff or something)

 

That's much more what I had in mind. Good show, as always.

Curses, foiled again! I guess this is why the internet is full of idea men, eh?

 

Eh you could kind of do it with some weird hackery, removebuffs and what not combined with temp debuffs, it'd be a mess though.

 

On level3 100% proc chance to hit and cast a amount="1" kind of fat fingers removal. Though I don't really like the idea, randomness is not necessary.
While

This is a must for every skill. There's no need to have abilities so good they must be taken necessarily.

Sorry, I don't think I've understood. The dot must proc a characterbuff, so requirebuffontrigger can read through it and then activate the effects?
I can try something like that. I hope dots can proc buffs every turn.

 

Even if you say that, the penalty does mitigate the benefits early on, before you can craft a pair of infinity swords and take a full line of weapon skills. It forces you to put your first few levels into it, and I don't really like that.

Maybe instead we could move the penaltyless dual wielding to a bit later in the line instead of completely destroying the skill tree if you don't level it up.

 

I think your reply got snipped somehow.

 

It did. My computer was being all stupid an hour ago. I was lucky I managed to post anything at all. And now I fixed it.

 

Always, it's always difficult if you take two swords, instead of one, and try to fight with both together. Above all if you never build that.
Also, if you move the penality later in the tree, you simply decrease the effectiveness of builds which build that, not builds which takes this 0point wonder and start killing things without problems from the 1st to the very 15th dungeon level. Never ever putting point here because yeah, if you get more expert with the two weapons fight you hit less (since the late -EDR).
Plus, I'm talking as one using two weapons right now: -20 isn't a dagger in the eye, you still hit stuff (primary at level one) with it. In the end, dual wield is going to be maxed out, so it's not a problem late game, when you invest points into it.
But as an old d&d character I simply couldn't stay well with that old dual wield. It simply didn't felt right, and I was forced to NOT take it since I felt it was too easy to play with a skill that makes your character truly more powerful without any real investment.
If it could be possible, I'd be a fan of changing the mechanic of dual wield into: if one kind of weapon is double wield, it gives you 1.5x the max stat points (instead of the actual 2x); if you use two different weapons, you take the fully bonus from both weapons (1x+1x).

 

>dat Mycology buff

Holy. Crap.

 

Uhm. I think there is a problem: it's ok to create such a buff for the character telling him (and requirebuffontrigger) if there is a pet buffed or not. But this changes the whole aoe spell, since it will damage everyone if the buff isn't running on the player, or it will heal everyone if the buff runs.
This is just what I could think of, I didn't tried this yet but on the paper it should work like this.

Anyway I managed to autobuff the pet upon summoning it. Expect :edit: for this post, bringing you engaging new mechanics.