I've heard, many times, around this forum that a wizard/warrior build is called a "gish". It's kind of weird to say, especially not knowing what else it might mean. Where did this name come from?
I wondered the same thing when I got here. I believe someone once said it was a term from Dungeons and Dragons, describing an order of spellblades call gith'zjerai or something. Gish for short. Best avatar ever, by the way.
Actually, it came from the description of the Githyanki (simply called "Gith", from where it went to "Gish"), close cousins (lore-wise) to the Githzerai and the first race which was suited for making a melee/magic hybrid character in the early days of D&D (1980 or even a little earlier; it is thus not surprising that the genesis of the word was thoroughly lost for many).
Nooooope. The Githyanki and the Githzerai are planar offshoots of escaped slaves of illithids. They both have psionic powers as a result of this. In the Githyanki language, gish means skilled - and it is used as a word to describe the mage / warrior hybrids of the Githyanki who are skilled in both blade and spell.
Oh well, I might be wrong about the "first race" thing, but the word's origin is still there. Either way, it's ancient past so forgive me for not being sure whether it was Githyanki or Githzerai who came to exist first.
I am curious how such an obscure term came to be applied to a character type in Dredmor--did one person decide to call warrior-mages "gish" and it just caught on? Did that person have to explain to everyone what he or she meant by "gish" when he or she coined that usage of the term in the context of Dredmor? I always thought it was weird that people used the phrase so readily without questioning its origin. It took me awhile to figure out that it referred to casters who could stand their ground in melee in Dredmor, and I knew what gish/githyanki/githzerai were from playing DnD and MUDs.
Here's the thing, the term was obscure at first but over time became less so. Now it is a rather widely-used term [in the role-playing gaming community] and the only thing that is obscure about it is the word's origin; sure, some people don't know about it, but many gamers do and just don't know where did the word come from.
Ah, see I never heard the term used to describe a melee/caster hybrid until I started lurking these forums (and still haven't heard it used anywhere else, which made it a bear to figure out what the hell people meant by "gish" on these forums at first). I wonder if it started out as a regional thing (I'm from Michigan originally)--though I had never heard it on the net until I started reading up on dredmor strategies, and I've been playing/min-maxing in rpg's since '93). I think the term just bothers me because it makes me feel old and behind the times. EDIT: Doing a little bit of research, it seems like the term is mostly used in table-top rpg circles? Also, don't look it up on urbandictionary. There's some ugly definitions of "gish" out there.
Yup, table-top RPG circles; outside of there people use it sporadically at most, so those unaware of what does that word mean are left to suffer from lack of knowledge (though again, there's nothing stopping them from asking). But that was to be expected of a term originating from D&D.
All right, well, I submitted the real definition to Urban Dictionary. We'll see if they accept it. [edit] Success! [/edit]
You know Essence, if that example you posted ends up being helpful to anyone who isn't crazy enough to know what "Necronomiconomics" is supposed to mean, the world will come to an end.
Are you kidding? Wikitionary already has 'gish' listed as 'a Githyanki fighter/mage hybrid'. I figure nerds all over will vote up the real definition of 'gish', and then the curious will look up either 'Necronomiconomics' or 'Tenebrous Rift', and we'll win over even moar converts!
The level 1 and 2 skills aren't gishy at all, then 3 and 4 are, then 5 is not, and 6 is definitely not .
I thought Gish came from a bastardization of the word Gestalt (pronouced Gesh-talt), a form of d&d playing where a person simultaneaously goes up in two classes at once. Cerlic/ranger, fighter/wizard and rogue/sorceror would all be examples of such things. When playing a gestalt character you gain the abilities of both classes, but take the highest of whatever the two offer. As an example a fighter/waizard gains all the spells at the speed of a wizard, yet has the BAB and HP of a straight fighter. While it certainly makes a character more powerful, it doesn't double their power as there is only a limited number of actions each character gains. My favorite in 3.x is Factotum 8/chamelon 10/ factotum 2 mixed with psionic 20.
In gestalt you can't go any further than: Archivist 9 / Mystic Theurge 10 / Arcane Heirophant 1 | druid 1/Beholder Mage 10/ Arcane Heirophant 9. You end up with 29 archivist caster levels and 29 Beholder Mage caster levels.
Ha ha ha that is wonderful for a character. I just wanted someone who could Solo the universe if he wanted. Especially with Iajutsu for the factotum.
Would you believe I heard of gestalt classes from a completely different place just yesterday? Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. Pretty neat stuff, etymology. I like how this sparked a discussion. It's almost like I planned it that way... myehehe
You'll find that it happens a lot here. There are a few members, like OmniaNigrum (or "Omni" as he is being referred to) or Kazeto, or others, who are known for creating discussions for no reason whatsoever. Bastards. Hint: the word "bastard" is not meant to be taken as an insult there; just saying (writing) because I don't want Daynab to go "mafia" on this thread because of me.
*OmniaNigrum. The funny pictures thread once devolved into a discussion of Amazon surgery. As for gestault, I've always been partial to Paladin/Sorcerors. Not as optimized as mining's iBook build, but it's fun putting a point into Charisma and seeing half your character sheet increase And it happens to be a Gish, so this post is ontopic!
