For most builds, there are two main options for a defensive skill- Shield Bearer and Master of Arms. As a fairly new player, it can be hard to decide which one to choose for most of my builds. I thought this thread would be useful for anyone with similar problems. I guess we should start with covering the similarities. 1) They both max out after 5 levels. Nice to know. 2) They grant similar passive bonuses. Specifically, they mostly deal with and . 3) They both have a few triggered effects (not sure what the correct term is). These mostly grant extra , , and . 4) They both give you items when you start. Shield Bearer gives a Wooden Shield, and Master of Arms gives you an Iron Breastplate. Both are fairly decent at DL 1. 5) Despite what their names imply, neither of them rely on having any sort of equipment. This is useful if you're playing, say, a Wizard character and don't want to use heavy armour. Now for the pros/cons of each. Shield Bearer 1) Probably the main one is Defensive Bash at Level 3. This is the only truly offensive spell that either of these skills get. It deals damage, knocks your target back, paralyses them and crushes their bones. This gets even better with the capstone, which grants a 10% chance of performing this when you hit in melee. Very nice. 2) Shield Bearer gets a total of passive 20 if you max it out. MoA only gets 15. 3) Duck and Cover! comes at Level 2, which is pretty good but sadly the chance of it activating is random. If you want a spell which you can choose to activate, you'll have to wait for Tortoise Maneuver at Level 4. 4) It comes with a couple of debuffs with its activated spells. Defensive Bash has -1 and -1, and Tortoise Maneuver has -1. 5) It gets 5 with all its spells activated, including passive bonuses. Extra and ? Pretty sweet! Master of Arms 1) . MoA is awesome for this. Suit Up and Walk it Off grant 4 and 10 respectively when active. Amazing. 2) Walk it Off doesn't activate nearly enough. 3) It peaks early. Suit Up and Walk it Off are the highlight of this skill. Don't get me wrong, It Only Makes You Stronger is pretty cool and passive bonuses and chance of activating Suit Up from Master of Arms is useful, but the first two skills are the best in my opinion. 4) I suppose it goes hand-in-hand with the last one, but it does seem to drop off late game. The main benefits from MoA (apart from ) are passive bonuses, and they only go so far. 5) With all spells active and passive bonuses included, it gets 5 and 4. That's pretty great. 6) No debuffs! Shield Bearer gives a couple of debuffs with its spells, but not MoA. I think I've covered pretty much everything, but feel free to point anything I missed out. It's pretty likely that there are other options that I don't know about since I only have YHTNTEP right now, but feel free to discuss other potential contenders. Discuss!
Personally, I'm inclined to agree. Still, I really like Defensive Bash from Shield Bearer. An extra few turns from knockback and paralysis can be a lifesaver.
Depends. If I'm playing a ranged character but I plan to get in melee often enough that I feel like I need a defensive skill or I'm going for a 100% block build without Dual Wield, I go Shield Bearer. If I'm playing a Vampire without other major regen sources, I take Master of Arms. if I'm playing a Dual Wield warrior and I need a generic defensive skill, I take Battle Geology.
Personally I prefer Master of Arms, but there are occasions when I take Shield Bearer instead (and there are also times when I take both, or neither). Depends on the exact build and on the mood when I create the character.
I know I'm relatively new, but I've been lead to believe that Vampirism stops all natural health regen, regardless of how high your stat is. Can you heal naturally if you find a way to boost your stat? That sounds like it would kinda defeat the purpose of the Vampirism skill, since getting a bit of extra with magic items isn't exactly difficult.
I've learned from experience that taking both can be incredible. The stacked is really nice (especially for vampires) and with all of the excess and you don't have to wear the heaviest armor in the dungeon to get good protection, which frees up your slots for other considerations. This works especially well on hybrid rogue/warrior or warrior/wizard builds who tend towards lighter armors for high or /. Though it's worth mentioning that most of my warriors die from exotic damage not mundane and since Exotic Resistances are much easier to acquire through equipment than through skills it's still worth doubling up on a straight warrior character, since this will free you to get more resistances or diversify your defense with some dodge or stack extra offensive equipment. That's not to say I always double up on it though... I'm with Kazeto on this one. Kazeto:
If I'm going unarmed, I nearly always will pick Shield bearer. if I choose any other specific weapon skill, I'll usually also pick dual wield, and thus shield bearer suddenly becomes the inferior choice. If I don't pick a weapon skill, then I'm not sure which I'd prefer -- either/or (sometimes both if I'm going Vampire).
I've recently been playing with MoA and I've noticed that when "It Only Makes You Stronger" procs off of being hit, it doesn't refresh itself when it procs again. For example, the first proc applies for 80 turns, but if you proc again with 30 turns left, it still just stays at 30 turns. This is in contrast to the "Suit Up" proc, which always replaces the current buff. Is this intended?
Important note - the breastplate from MoA (starting equipment) is ONLY given if you do not have more Wizard or Rogue skills than Warrior skills. That breastplate is a big, big advantage when starting the game - don't miss out! If I can't afford to have 2 other Warrior Skills, I'd always go Shields instead.
Well, if you're running a Wizard or Rogue character you probably don't want that breastplate anyway, since it gives all the wrong kind of stats. You'll probably ace the first level anyway if you put in a point for Suit Up. To be honest, if I were more interested in the gear it gave me I would pick Shield Bearer every time.
