Will the 1.0 release exclude many of the initial plan's features

I don't know if it's just me, but I had a pretty negative reaction to learning that the release is less than three weeks away, mostly because I had assumed the game was nowhere near that stage of completion. The image of a highly developed colony presented early on was completely different than what's currently in the game - the giant brick and brass factories powered by eldritch forces, the sanitarium feeding the lovecraftian nightmare, the strange pseudo-scientific weapons and tools, the dynamic world map with long-term progression... none of it is in the game. I know more 'creepy' content is getting added, but very fundamental features like large factories (from the factory/artisan/workshop blogpost), weird forms of dynamics/conduits, cursed modules, crazy inventions and megaprojects, weird biomes like spider hatching grounds, vehicles, multiplayer... it's all missing, and it's hard to believe it will all be added/tested/tweaked/balanced/polished in the next 20 days. I mean, multiplayer alone is an incredibly complex feature that will require extensive testing, and I can't image that will all happen by the 26th.

Some of it is ineffable, and I apologize, but I think the best way I can put it is that the colonies you build right now don't feel anything like the New Crobuzon nightmares the initial plans seemed to indicate would be possible; they feel like mildly steampunk flavored Banished colonies, on a smaller scale. Am I way off base? Hoping I just don't understand the plan, but I'm a bit worried the game I've been so excited about for the last two years had been dramatically scaled back in ambition and scope.

 

Multiplayer was essentially cancelled, at least for release, so...

 

Yes, the decision to drop multiplayer happened quite a few releases back.

 

Fair enough - honestly, that wasn't a big draw for me (someone might want to let the team know it's still in the development progress tracker, though). But the other stuff still seems valid, no?

 

I'll be honest, some of the batching modules could "easily" (as in perhaps a mod might be able to add it) put in as a high-multiplier or high-efficiency module built using parts + artifacts (like the ones you dig up). Then add "events" which trigger if you have the modules built, etc...

But I agree it isn't something you can just do in a day and expect it to work perfectly, especially if there's something serious like an arc involved.


Some of the stories seem more like stories people write on forums though.

 

That's the giant grim face of realistic game development. We have ourselves a great game coming with tons of wonderful content, just not one with every single incredibly ambitious idea from three years ago. Luckily the game will get continued content support long after 1.0 releases.

 

Would you be willing to comment on the feature list for what *is* planned for 1.0? Specifically, major features like:

* Dynamics/conduits/mechanized production
* Progression (between games) and overworld simulation
* Vehicles
* Urchins (this is key)
* The ability to harness/ally yourself with dark forces
* Corrupted/evil/weird sub-biomes, like the spider eggs or tentacle biomes mentioned earlier
* Larger, industrial factories
* Mad science mega-projects
* Property ownership
* Demanding upper-classes
* Special items for military squads
* Unique artifacts that can lead to both benefits if used, and horrible outcomes

This may be on me getting myself unreasonably hyped; it's just that the game as it stands just doesn't seem able to actually execute the types of stories the team wrote early on (and obviously not every detail was ever going to come to life, but right now it's not even close - remember the mine that found an eldritch coffin, that led to evil pipes of doom, that ate urchins, that eventually led to a Purging Squad being called in, armed with voltaic and phlogiston-based guns? I don't think any of that is possible, right?).

The basic mood/production/building system stuff is great, but also can be found in other Dorf-em-ups (Rimworld, DF itself, etc.). What I hope will differentiate this game is the rest of it - all the crazy steampunk/Lovecraftian stuff you can build/explore/get killed by. Scripted events are a start, but to keep coming back to a game over and over, I tend to think you also need the deeper simulation-based stuff.

 

Good post, faith I shall have... I need that reason to play a file past day 50-75. Lots of cool directions to go with stuff and good ideas have popped up been leaked whatever.

I didn't know tangentially was a word.... I even learn stuff on the forum. "Tangentially speaking" will be how I lead a lot of sentences when I want to sound like a dumb guy trying to be smart, as that is what I am, I have come to terms with that. Hell I don't even know if "tangentially speaking" is even grammatically correct. Maybe I can just give one word answers "tangentially!" when I like something someone said.

To tomorrows hangover!

 

Ok, I understand, and that makes sense. Hope you're incredibly excited/proud/relieved to see 1.0 out the door, and I apologize if I'm being a wet blanket. If it's the case that the game I imagined in my head just wasn't really the goal, that's on me.

One note of clarification; the snoot/conduit/dynamic difference is a bit lost on me. Will we still have powered modules in factories, or is the economic endgame the manual workbench/workshop? And will steam/voltaic/etc. power still be a concept represented in game at all? Or to put it more broadly - how steampunk will the economy actually get?

 

There was that workshop upgrading thing but it went... where exactly?

 

I don't think anyone can reasonably expect much more content to be added in the next 3 weeks since the devs will have their hands full with polish and bugfixing. But I tend to agree with you... we, early backers, won't really notice a difference in updates if they really continue just like before after 1.0...

However, all the people buying CE thinking it is a completed game (and arguably it is if it's fully released as 1.0) won't be so patient - what they paid for is what they get, and they don't care if it gets a military revamp with better military orders, walls, better fortification system months after release. This is just one of the examples I personally hoped that we'd get before release, and I think many people will compare CE to other basebuilders and point out the areas in which it is... lacking.

And there are many other things that could use some more work, like job management, overseer management, stockpile options, UI work and scaling for bigger colonies... Do we even have the ability to study artifacts like it's demonstrated in the 2nd steam video on its page? If not, you might want to consider pulling that video from the page before release then...

So, why the decision to push it out so early, when it still feels like EA? If the updates and development won't change, why not wait a little longer before it's better in these areas? I'm afraid it's going to get many negative reviews because it's going to inevitably be compared to Rimworld, Prison Architect, Gnomoria and many other basebuilders that had much more content and polish at release.

Also, still no anti-aliasing? Is that really something that can be easily added in these 3 weeks?

Basically, you only have one chance to make a good first impression. And CE had some 'mixed user reviews' moments even in EA (current overall score is 72%), you have to assume it's going to be under much more scrutiny when it gets released...

 

(Posted on another forum, reposted here.)

Interesting that 2D vs 3D seems to make so little difference here. I suppose the subgenre emerging from Dwarf Fortress is so much more about gameplay features and system interactions than about graphics, that some folks basically ignore the graphics altogether when comparing games. But certainly CE has moved about half as fast as Prison Architect did through their EA cycle, and surely the graphics have something to do with it. Would you rather play isomorphic 3D with half the features, or icon-based 2D with twice the features? Because that's a tradeoff Gas Lamp has to make.

I hope and expect CE will find a community at launch and not get compared excessively to 2D games with, admittedly, more gameplay at launch. If the bar is "all indie builders need to be feature-competitive at launch even when using very different and more production-intensive graphics in some cases," well, that would be unfortunate for Gas Lamp.

To me the bar for "is the game complete" is not whether they have all the features originally envisioned (never happens), or whether all the systems there are polished to their ultimate condition (not in indieville, not with a game of this ambition both graphically and gameplay-wise). It is not even, can I build a town with all the gewgaws and knickknacks in other builders. It is: do I get invested in the little people? Am I chilled by the weirdness? Am I challenged to help them prosper? Does the endgame satisfy? And, can I play several games and get different, surprising outcomes?

I am quite confident already in the first three, and the last two are the big question mark. But I can see why they consider it ready for 1.0, and in this post-No Man's Sky era of micro-critiquing initial vision versus ultimate delivery, I hope enough other people agree with me to make their launch a success. Plus, they are just so awesome, they deserve more money to make it betterer for at least a couple more years. They already got my Kickstarter money, but maybe I'll buy some gift copies....

 

That's a damn fine point of view, and one that I've shared for awhile now. Now and then I bring this up, but you've said it more eloquently and in more depth.

The graphics engine, art (both style and sheer detail), and insane amount of animation really don't get spotlighted enough when compared to recent entries in this genre. It makes a huge difference for me. I mean, Rimworld is amazing and miles deep, but I find myself less involved in the emergent "storylines" going on because they're little blobs floating around a flat relatively abstracted map (again, I'm really not trying to insult Rimworld... it's a remarkable acheivement).

 

I don't think I would have given this game a second look if it had been 2D.

 

If the game sells well once released would expanding the team working on the game for the 1.0 version be anything that could happen? Obviously a lack of manpower makes it harder to do everything planned, it is awesome how well the game is made considering the few people who work on it.



This game is so close to being one of the best games I have ever played, and honestly doesn't FEEL like (to a man with zero knowledge of creating a video game) it is that far away from being a game where you can play for 1000 in game days, do this then decide to do that create an empire essentially. Anything I ever type in this forum is because I aspire it to become the most entertaining game I have ever played and it is obviously on the right track, I have never joined a forum and spent this many days on it, I check this forum pretty much every day, never close the window on my PC for the forum. Just looking for new content etc.

Side note, if someone could make dwarf fortress a game with a more casual approach to it (I can not play DF, I can figure nothing out, too many keys are used in the game, I can not figure out how to even build a farm or "channel" into the ground and then build inside structures. I channel then nothing can be done, I know I am doing it wrong obviously, but seriously, that game is way too tough to jump into for a casual gamer. I appreciate the game though and think it is awesome and aspire to be able to play it and understand whats going on but lack the time to do so. Even the youtube videos I watch are all over the place so I never learn anything about DF. I see people talking about DF all the time, one day I might be able to figure out how to do anything to progress past chopping a few trees down.

 

Consider Gaslamp's track record with DLC. Between Wizardlands, Diggle Gods, and YHTNTEP the content for Dredmor expanded to the point that I don't consider base Dredmor the complete experience anymore. The potential for expansion content using the event system alone is mind-boggling.

Through Early Access I have clocked in ~66 hours of Clockwork Empires. Read like a chart, my playtime reads asymptotically, and I am thrilled to be a part of making the game a little better.