Hello, Whilst playing an Unarmed fighter who would dual wield two shields to optimize his physical defense, I took Shield-Bearer to get the most benefit from the shields. However, the first ability I learned in the Shield-Bearer tree is a mixed blessing. I mean, sure, when it activates upon being hit, it will normally boost my block to a level that makes me nigh invincible to most physical, melee enemies, as well as increase my maximum health and add to by stubborness score. However, it's a double-edged sword... err shield, in that I lose two points in both Nimbleness and Melee Power, and it is very noticeable in combat. Now, normally I wouldn't have a problem with this trade-off as it makes perfect sense that a player who chooses to orient himself towards defense will lose offensive capability, but that's usually when the player decides the situation weighs in favor of defense over offense. But I have absolutely no control over when Duck and Cover! activates! Because of this, the random activation of Duck and Cover! often results in making low-risk fights take longer than it should due to the drastic decrease in my damage capability (I mean, the pumpkin just hit me for 1 damage, that warrants me to tighten my defenses? Heck, sometimes it seems to go off on a successful, no-damage block). Not to mention, the prolonged fighting of random battles leaves me more open to other enemies, especially when I'm handling a zoo room. And even with a high block stat, getting clustered in the middle of a chain of monsters with no breathing room will probably mean death, it would just take 3 more minutes than usual. Furthermore, I do not believe monsters with magical/elemental attacks can be blocked effectively to begin with, so when this triggers against, say, a steam golem or some other monster whose primary damage comes from a non-physical element, I'm safer just running away until the buff wears off. I forgot to mention that, I cannot click off the buff either, it has to wear off on its own! Now, if this was an ability I could activate on my own terms, I wouldn't mind the loss of power, since I would choose to use the ability in a situation where it would be most helpful. But the randomness of it really harms the tactical value of the ability. I would say it should either be turned into an active skill to use with a lengthy cooldown, or remove the melee power and nimbleness penalties (while nerfing the bonuses, of course). Or possibly remove the ability entirely from the tree (The skill would still have 1 more ability compared to Artful Dodge.) Or, at the very least, maybe move the ability farther down the tree so players who want take the shield skill to increase survivability, but don't want to sacrifice offense for even more defense on a random basis can simply stop leveling into the tree after a certain point. Now, I'm not whining or anything, but I feel this is a balance issue that should be brought up. I'm not sure if unarmed combat utilizing two-shields was exactly intended to begin with, but I'm sure this affects anyone who fights with a shield regardless what weapon skill they choose (unless you are a mage with a shield, that's kind of weird but I'm guessing it happens.) What do you guys think?
While I get what you were trying to go with by taking shield and unarmed along with dual shields. I don't think those skills were really meant to be synergistic. With the weapon skills you get the damage bonuses along with whatever the weapon has. Making the duck and cover buff/debuff tolerable, albeit noticeable. I still was able to do decent damage and kill enemies with in 2 or so hits on the fifth floor (I am still not that far in the game). So maybe your build got the damage mitigation right but lacked any real offense? Seeing that two of the unarmed skills are mainly focused on knocking foes back and avoiding damage, rather than giving crit/counter bonuses. Correct me if I had made any mistakes, I only tried unarmed once. Despite your technical issues with the build, I kind of agree about duck and cover. It would be nice as an active skill, but then again I didn't really have much problem with it using a weapon.
Well, I have yet to place any levels into some of my more offensive skills like Assassinate (though my unarmed is maxed out), but certain monsters where the block bonus has little to no effect, my ability to out damage them and elude them is what powers me through. When the buff kicks in, I'm basically in a weaker state than I was previously and, while I can probably defeat my opponent, it will leave me open to more non-blockable attacks as well as other enemies. Now, I can think of several situations where this buff would be useful, but the random nature of its trigger can ruin my preparation for handling a group of monsters. For example, say I could kill those fire slime things in two hits and I had to deal with a steam golem and a mustache statue who are on the way to my position. Well typically I'd finish off the slime before those two monsters were in a position to cause me harm. However, if my Duck and Cover buff triggers, suddenly the fight is now taking 3 to 4 hits to complete, giving those other monsters plenty of time to line up for an attack unless I fall back to a single corridor. Not only that, but the fire slime's attacks are almost entirely fire based, so my buff does nothing to actually help whether its attacks. If I had some control over when the buff triggers, I would use it in situations where I may have to turtle up for defense against a hard hitting physical mob, like something that may have popped out of an evil chest or one for a side-quest. The intention of the ability is entirely survival, but the game doesn't know enough to decide when I should buckle down and hold the fort when I'd rather be better off roundhouse kicking things in the face. I mean, Necronomiconomics abilities often has some negative kickback to the player, but because you must first use the skill to receive those penalties you are making the decision that you are prepared and ready to handle the tradeoff. But Duck and Cover!'s bonuses apply on their own, and thus I get the penalty and bonus at random during a fight, and thus it can do more harm than good depending on when it turns on (and it does it very often, I see it at least every other fight). Also, the tooltip for the skill's ability never mentioned anything about losing power, just gaining defense. But, it's not like the tooltips for any of the skills are actually informative as of yet.
Ah, I didnt really know the rest of your set up. Is your character still alive or are you just repeatedly trying it out on different runs? Maybe advancing in offensive abilities a little sooner might help balance things out? that or get lucky and get some nice elemental defenses, but thats kind of up in the air. I guess the developers had in mind that shield was supposed to be used in tandem with master of arms? Being a more burly tank character who would rather take less damage than avoid. I really like the shield tree but unless i plan on making a 'knightly' skill set up, I am just gonna look elsewhere. Well it says "fight smarter! not better!" which makes sense after you use it. It's all purposely vague. The only real way to understand a skill tree is to either try it yourself (since youre probably gonna die anyways) or cheat and look up a wiki page. Seriously, who's gonna understand the mushroom skill at first glance, hahaha.
He's still alive, and has done better than any other character I've had (but most of the time I die to traps I walk into on my part). Though, since I've taken this level in Shield-Bearer, things have become more difficult. I wasn't expecting to lose attack strength randomly throughout fights, which makes combat less tactical and more luck-based. I fight much better without the buff on and for about 80% of the fights I take minimal damage as it is. Now I think I've taken more damage with the buff on because I'm encountering more damage types other than physical, and the buff is simply adding 1 or 2 more turns to combat. If this is supposed to be like a buff, shouldn't I be able to at least click it off like other buffs?
Quick slightly-related question. Do you need a Shield to actually Block? Iv noticed alot of Staffs also have Block Chance values.. plus the first ability says it increases your block chance.. So; A) Was wondering if you can block without a shield, aka with Just a Staff. B) If the above is true, can you get the buffs from Shield-Bearer with a Staff? (I mean sure you'll get the passive bonuses but I'm wondering about the proc's from blocking etc).
It's true, once I picked Duck and Cover on my viking warrior I wondered what had happened. The effects are clearly noticeable. Now, I am not saying that it's bad to sacrifice a little attack power to gain more defensive power. It may also be my limited experience, but if it stays this way, next time I'm skipping shield bearer. -edit- TopHatCat: No, I think you don't. Notice how the dual wielding skill tree has block in it.
Iv been playing with the build and I can now confirm you don't need a shield, Iv been running around Dual Wielding Staves and having lots of fun with it, as for proc'ing Shield-Bearer abilities, haven't tested that yet, don't think I will, as 1 point would be wasted (Shield-bash)
I've reduced the negative effects of Duck and Cover for the next patch; hopefully this helps it end up as a net positive rather than a burden in combat.
^Thank you. I'm also dual wielding shields right now about to finish up level 7. The debuff is making it harder to deal with the ice mages who hit for 11 everytime.
Awesome, I can't wait to try the skill out again. I'm trying a necromantic build right now since my dungeon collapsed on my unarmed shield bearer (I called him Chuck Nordish), so I'll get around to it when I can. And yes, you can block without a shield, but shields often have defensive stats including increasing your block chance, also there are orbs with magic stats that are considered shields so being a shield-bearer caster is completely viable.
