Dredmor Patch 1.0.10 RC9 Feedback Thread - I Believe in The Lever Fix

It's probably caused by the missing craftDB tag I mentioned above.

If you want to fix it yourself just go into the expansion folder, open craftDB.xml in a text editor and add <craftDB> at the top and </craftDB> at the bottom.

 

By the way, I just wanted to take a little moment to say ***thank you*** to you guys for doing proper testing and getting (what will hopefully be) a really smooth and stable version out there. I guess you're growing up as a game developer - a fact that definitely excites me

 

The crafts are working now! Thanks for the help.

 

I know you guys have been messing around with mushrooms a lot, but the drop rate seems rather more higher than it really should be. An order of magnitude higher, perhaps. Or perhaps twice as high. Just seems like rather a lot of mushrooms.

 

Think about it this way: You used to be able to turn every corpse into fungus! It was a little bit of a chore, but it could be done. Granted, now you sometimes get two fungus per corpse, and rarely three or more. Overall, though, is the amount of fungus you get more than the maximum amount you could get in 1.0.9? Or is it about the same, or even less? If it's the same or a little less, then I don't see this as a problem. The goal of the change was to eliminate the boring spore farming and the ability to farm spores for turning into lutefisk. The number of mushrooms you get should ideally be about what you could get from the 1.0.9 version of the skill.

The new skills have the following chances of spawning mushrooms on monster death (as you add levels to the Fungal Arts Skill):

1. 27% Sporification
2. 23% Fungling
3. 11% Sporification
4. 13% Fungling
5. 5% + 5% of Sporification and Fungling respectively.

You can get up to 6 mushrooms with one monster death, though the chance of that happening is 0.0002%. Overall, we get 0.84 shrooms per corpse. This is 16% less than the 1 shroom per corpse we could get with the old Fungal Arts, but no spore farming is required! I call this a win.

For fun, there is an 61% chance of getting at least one mushroom when a monster dies. The math is not simple, and it goes like this:

27 + (.73 * .23) + (.56 * .11) + (.5 * .13) + (.435 * .05) + (.413 * .05) = 0.6069

(The first value in each parentheses is the chance that the previous skills didn't produce a shroom, and the second value is the chance that that skill produces a shroom.)

Does anyone know what amount="4" does on the two triggers for Sporification and Fungling? Is it possible that each is triggering four times, making way more shrooms than I calculated?

Code:

<spell name="Sporification" type="targetfloor" icon="skills/rogue/skill_mushroom_lore2_32.png" wand="0" >
    <effect type="trigger" spell="Spore Cloud Effect" />
  <effect type="trigger" spell="Fungal Bloom 1" amount="4" />
  </spell>
 
<spell name="Fungling" type="targetfloor" icon="skills/rogue/skill_mushroom_lore2_32.png" wand="0" >
  <effect type="trigger" spell="Spore Cloud Effect" />
  <effect type="trigger" spell="Fungal Bloom 2" amount="4" />
  </spell>

 

You know, I really would like to know how overpowered you made Dredmor now.
Keep in mind, Dredmor can't even be taken on in melee unless you get the Diggle God of Death + 30 AA at least, and at least 7 to hyborian resists. This is assuming you don't have 76 counter somehow.
I only took him on once before, and had to use stone bolts+ other bolts to do significant damage to him. Melee was impossible at that point. And this was in Realms of the Diggle Gods.
I'm worried about this.

Now, I can be annoying, granted, but I want to know when you'll finally address the lack of use melee has? Because I hate to say it, but on Elvish Easy, this game should not be hard with a melee user. Even against Dredmor.

Combine the current difficulty on Elvish Easy with the lack of a way to remove corruption, without forcing the player to go through an entire skill tree of Demonology, is kind of looking like you want to usurp all other Roguelikes in terms of difficulty.
Also, the fact that that skill doesn't allow you to remove Krong curses makes it half as useful.

My rambling insanity aside, just let me know that you will finally someday, address the lack of use Melee has past floor 7 or so.
Blobs of Corruption on Elvish Easy have more than 100 health. In order to prevent them from corrupting your gear if you run out of bolts/throwing items, you need to do 120 damage a hit. That's almost impossible without critically hitting with two Doul's Possible swords. That spawned from two evil chests, if that's even a possible item spawn.
Now, maybe I'm a bit confused on some stats, I could be, but still.

Also, this precludes the fact that Dredmor, being a lich, should not be the world's strongest man in melee. When did Superman become a Lich and change his name to Dredmor?
I speak from the experience of Angband/ADOM/other rougelikes. This is not Dungeons and Dragons here. We should not borrow from them. Once you add in D&D style stuff to Roguelikes, you lose your audience or you deserve to at least. Unless you know how to do it, which I have never ever seen.

Now, don't shoot the messenger here. These are just my thoughts. And I really want Melee to be upgraded. To the point where it's useful all the time.

 

I have played a bunch of the beta patch, but I've not gotten far enough down to Dredmor, to see how he's changed.
I have noticed how some of the melee changes have helped, but I still am nervous about how to successfully run a melee character in this game.
I'm not trying to be super annoying, I'm not, I just am nervous, if that makes any sense.
I do like the fact that critical hits on you can be negated now. That is so helpful.

I just, I worry here, because I like this game, I do, I just don't understand why Melee characters took so long to be upgraded.
Again, I'm not trying to be annoying, I just have a hard time getting my point across, and that can make me come across as an idiot or more annoying than Navi, "Hey, Listen! Hey, Listen!"
Thank you, both of you.
I will start up a new Beta Patch character soon and give it a shot. I just hate having to cycle through 1.09 Rev B for the few mods I play, and the Beta Patch to play it normally.
Unless the Beta Patch somehow does work with Roguish Renovation, Interior Dredmoring, and FaxPax, and Jay's Phenome mod.

Also, I apologize for my Epic of Gilgamesh length posts.

 

It's 61% to get at least one. Over time, you average of 84 shrooms after 100 corpses. So, you can kind of think about it as an 84% chance per corpse to get one shroom.

With the old skill it was 100% to get one per corpse if you dedicated the time. You could get 100 shrooms from 100 corpses, but you had to compete with boredom. Depending on how overpowered you felt it was to get one per corpse, it should be nerfed to a certain degree, which it already has been (from 100% to 84%) However, the average player never tried to get one per corpse, so they now notice the skill giving them so many mushrooms. When before many people would just hit the spore spell whenever they noticed it off of cooldown, and use the spores on the next available corpses.

The 84% is also only when they have max ranks in the skill. At level 1 it's only 27%. You currently have it setup such that putting a mere two ranks in the skill grants an average of 50 shrooms per 100 corpses. That's really good odds for only having two ranks in the skill. Perhaps you should weight it the other way. For instance, give players a 10% chance for the first skill, and a 10% chance for the second skill. This more closely mirrors the original Fungal Arts where you get fewer spores at early levels. (Truly masochistic players could still get a 100% corpse conversion ratio even at level 1, but that's unlikely due to the boredom factor.) Then scale up the ratios as you add points to the skill. I would still target a high number. At rank 5 of Fungal Arts I personally wouldn't want to see less than 75 shrooms per 100 corpses. That's 25 less than I easily could have gotten with the 1.0.9 skill. At rank 5 of the old skill it's much easier to farm every corpse because you got so many spores at once at high skill levels.

Maybe a scale like this:

1. 8%
2. 8%
3. 16%
4. 16%
5. 14% + 14%

That's an average of 76 shrooms per 100 corpses. You don't reach 50 (well, 48) until rank 4 of the skill instead of at rank 2 with the current RC5 version.

Then again, although it wasn't too time consuming, I would still get bored at later levels and stop making shrooms when I thought I had "enough". With this skill, it never turns off. Maybe the final percentage should be as low at 50%:

1. 5%
2. 5%
3. 10%
4. 10%
5. 10% + 10%

Well, that was just some ideas.

 

The only thing annoying about your post is how many times you said you're not trying to be annoying. And spending so many words explaining that.

People who even bother to play test the release candidates (RC's) are respected for having an opinion. At least, I, for one, respect people that have opinions. As long as they aren't a jerk about it. The trouble is, you didn't even express an opinion. All you said is, "I worry" and "I'm nervous."

Try actually saying something. No one's going to shoot you for it. EDIT: Nevermind, you said a lot of things in your other post. There's nothing at all annoying there! Keep it up! However, make sure you do test the latest RC.

You ain't got nothing on me! Look how long my posts are.

 

It's better than it was. Much of the difficulty in facing Dredmor with a melee character was the fact that you didn't have enough supplies for that because melee characters used a lot of food/ranged item attacks from level 7~8, due to the ever-increasing critical stat of all monsters. Some of the difficulty was also in the fact that magic reflect wasn't working.
Now you are actually capable of getting some food, healing potions, and a handful of useful bolts/throwables to Dredmor, it's not as hard as it was, and that is not accounting the better equipment. And with magic reflect actually being useful there, you can play pong with Dredmor's magic for additional difficulty drop. That is why he has to get a boost, because with the changes in the beta he became more wimpy compared to the player.

Yes, it does. Or at least it doesn't crash randomly, so I assume that's the case.

I propose 18% - 15% - 12% - 10% - 6+6%.
With that we'd get an average of 0.67 shroom per corpse, with about 51% chance of getting at least one mushroom when we kill anything.

 

Thank you, both of you. I will indeed play around more with the RC5.
Now if only Dungeons of Dredmor would stop taking longer to load games the farther into the game I am. Makes taking breaks from the game almost a bad idea.
I assume that's on my end from having a 2+ year old computer. At least it can run Cyrsis.

 

Has there yet to be a RC for OS X, I stop by and never hear about it. Am I just missing it somewhere.

 

TOMORROW, TOMORROW, I LOVE YA, TOMORROW,

YOU'RE ALWAAAAAAYS A DAAAY AAAAWAAAAAAAAY

 

A Damage field infinite loop? How did that work, exactly?
That sounds both awesome and bad.