Finally killed Mr. D

I know there's been a bunch of these posts already, but it's been almost 70 hours and it feels awesome. I tried for SO long to beat him with melee builds and always hit a wall around Level 7 or 8. Finally, I got frustrated and built an almost all-out mage build and torched my way through.

Weirdly enough, Dredmor was at the head of a Monster Zoo on Level 10. I opened the door and it was like, "Why, hello. So nice to meet you again along with 50 of your favorite DB's." Like any intrepid hero, I summoned a wyrmling and then slammed down an invisibility potion. This act of bravery was followed by laying 12 acid traps along the corridor then hiding around the corner and shooting fireballs as far as I could see.

Flex, flex, flex.

For Pony.

 

Grats on the Dredmor kill

Sounds like what I had going (75+ hours played, had been KILLED by Dredmor but still had yet to "beat the game") but I kept tweaking my Vampiric Fencer build until it finally clicked and I was able to use Archaeology and double Krong anvils to get my gear where it needed to be, and then wussed out and used Ninja Vanish, Clockwork Drill Bolts, and a Tentacular Wand to off old Dread.

 

Yeah,

I was killed by himself once as well...I went Viking Wizardry and I had him down to about 20% HP before his own Wind spell took me down.

I was pretty heartbroken. Then I putzed around with melee builds for about 40 hours and realized that they're horrendous currently.

This last playthrough took about 4 hours(skipped most of Levels 7-9) and was stupidly easy. Magic = OP.

 

I do not think Melee builds are horrendous, since I have beaten GR Dredmor with 2 melee builds now. The trick is finding the sweet spot of being able to one or two hit the majority of enemies.

Of course, it does hurt that Dual Wield stats are currently disabled.

 

They're disabled? I thought offensive whatever it's called still works in 1.03. I know the later ones are bugged out, but I'm certain that offensive one works.
Not to mention that dual wielding maces tends to smack people with Dwarven handshake a lot, for me, anyhow.

 

Oh, the Proc (Offensive Maneuvering) works just fine. It's the massive amounts of Counterattack that isn't being applied. NONE of the listed stat gains IN THE ENTIRE TREE are ever actually given to your character; thus, you only put 1 point in Dual Wielding for the proc and then move on. This will be fixed in the next patch, but for now, Dual Wielding is much less powerful than it could be.

Also, Melee hit point formulas are broken somehow (it has to do with the game not giving you the proper stats on Warrior level up or some such nonsense) and therefore ALL characters with a lot of "Fighter" Levels are getting screwed out of a decent chunk of HP.

Combine all this with the fact that the most dangerous monsters in the game deal large amounts of the hardest-to-resist-and-armor-does-nothing-to-mitigate-it Piercing Damage, and you have a game that's very rough on Melee builds.

Rough, but still winnable. You just have to fight the Stat Bugs with Bugs of your own: abuse Sight Radius and Sneakiness with Astrology and Burglary (they can't follow you or attack you if you can see them but they can't see you); reroll negative stats off your Artifacts with Archaeology; and use the Vampire Haywire/stacking corpses bugs to leech more life than you should.

 

Ah, well, they'll fix the HP bug next time too.
And they'll change armor so it can get piercing resistance.
Ah, and that's what you meant by Proc. Got it.

I come from the line of thinking that Proc means the chance to cast something on hit. Like it has been for Diablo II, and other games.

And yeah, Dual wield is messed up. Especially since the final skill subtracts 5.

 

@DavidB1111 As Marak indicated, it is the stats that are disabled and not the proc. But you are correct that proc referrs to the 'processing' of effects that occur upon hit.

As far as I am aware, Dwarven Handshake does not proc more often than someone swinging a single mace unless you are considering Offensive Maneuvering. In which case, I have no idea if that even counts as another official attack that can generate additional procs.

Either way, even with Dual Wield stats disabled it is still very important for adding damage to your character and ensuring that you hit the sweet spot. My most successful melee character was a critical build that dual wielded maces.

 

Personally I always use dual wield, but will not put a single skill point in it even if the counter attack bonus work. It's really there for the damage boost and doubling your primary weapon bonus.

 

If Dual Wielding worked properly and warrior levels scaled more HP melee would be a lot more balanced and viable. I also agree that Piercing damage is way too intense on some enemies on the latter floors. It's crazy to have 25 block and 12 armor and take 35 damage from a Big Blue when your max is like 65 HP at that point in the game.

Still, you can get by as melee as it is, but what killed me more than anything else was counters. Getting countered for 30 and then hit for another 30 is usually enough to send my hero to that great big dungeon in the sky.

 

The range of damage types that bypass Armor Absorption make it a pretty poor defensive option and should generally be avoided in favor of superior choices. The only place that Armor Absorption really makes a huge difference is on Dungeon Level 1-2 where most monsters are affected by it.

Even then it is harder to get large amounts compared to Counter/Block/Dodge since it does not naturally increase.

 

Thankfully, the monsters are going to be getting a nerf in the future, especially considering the Big Blues are more dangerous than than the Red people. due to the stats.
Also, Armor Absorption works wonders against enemies throughout the game.
On the top of my head...reducing damage by any monster that does not just do piercing or elemental damage only.
So, Witchys, Eelys, Pumpkinns, Deths, Zombies, Diggies, Enraged Diggles, Sickley Diggles, Diggle Commandos, Some golems. The aformentioned blue and red demons, Arch Diggles, seriously, high enough armor Absorption and they do half damage, , Mushys, more pumpkinn class enemies, Dredmor himself, etc, etc. Oh, yeah, all Carrot enemies will do zero damage up until the last ones with 12 armor Absorption. Batty monsters...etc.
Luckies, blobbies will do around half of their standard damage with any good absorb.

Shall I go on, or should we conclude that Armor Absorption is good? And will save your life.

 

I just wanted to throw in that Dredmor is one of the most stressful games I've ever played. I am playing a melee character presently, and found a monster zoo of 140 enemies, wherein I counted thirteen Big Blues, seven Monstrous Masks, and two named creatures in the part of the room that was visible before I ran the hell away, throwing poison vials behind me.

 

@Desi: It really does get tense! You invest time into the character and with permadeath on it reminds me of my younger days playing X-Com where I had so much history with certain characters and my hand would hover over the mouse as I thought about sending a long-time hero into a dark corner praying that an alien wouldn't be hiding there.

I've gotten to where I move square by square on level 10 and then when I finally see Dredmor it's kinda scary. Although, when I beat him it was so weird because I spent so much time looking for him in the open and he was at the head of a monster zoo staring me right in the face when I opened the door.

I actually didn't see him die. I heard the wonderful pops of traps and AoE damage and then I was flexin'.

 

@DavidB1111 You're going to have to go on, because Armor only protects against some of the damage dealt by the majority of those monsters. You know what defenses protect against every single monster you listed, AND ALMOST EVERY OTHER MONSTER IN THE GAME AS WELL?

Dodge/Counter/Block.

 

I actually like Block best. It's one of the easier ones to come by and unlock counter or dodge it doesn't rely on chance. Yeah, countering or dodging attacks is nice, but knowing that a Big Blue will have 80% of his attack stuffed by my block is better than hoping that my dodge or counter will stop his attack.

The only problem is if you go too Block-heavy, then a boss with a magic based attack will rip you to pieces. Hence why a summon on Dredmor is almost a necessity to keep him from putting his 40dmg/turn wind spell on you. Well, that or go inviz.

 

Is 80 block some kind of hard cap? It seems fairly possible to get block to 90, or even 100.

 

@Incendax Why are you so irritated? I'm simply explaining that armor Absorption is useful!
Gah. Without it, half those enemies do much more damage.
Would you rather deal with a Pumpkinn that does 12 slashing, or a Pumpkinn that does 0 slashing? I don't know about you...but less is better.

 

The problem with stacking Absorb is that you get to feeling immortal when most standard enemies are dealing next to no damage, but other monsters - typically the nastiest ones on the floor - are doing full damage with every attack. You get into a "oh, this is easy, I can stop worrying and roflstomp the rest of this floor" mode, and then suddenly you get a group of Piercing mobs that nuke your HP in just over a turn because you were getting complacent and waded right into them.

 

Er, maybe I'm doing it wrong then. But the monsters that are that dangerous, for me, I always keep an eye out, and know how to deal with them.
Or at least, I try to.