FORUM ARCHIVED

Animation Artists, Pixel Perfectionists, and Sprite Sculpters

Discussion in 'Modding' started by Rarefied Horse Meat, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. What are your favorite tools for making sprites, icons, and animations? Do you have any tips for newbies?

    I'd like to collect the wisdom of the few people here who know what they're doing, as we appear to have a surfeit of eager modders, but a shortfall of artists.

    I like Sumo Paint for painting/drawing with a tablet - it feels a great deal more intuitive than Photoshop for such things. It's a pretty full-featured online photo editor, too, if you need it for that purpose.
    http://www.sumopaint.com/start/

    I don't have any familiarity with it myself, but I've occasionally heard good things about Pixlr. Judging from the name only, it may be specially suited to pixel work.
    http://pixlr.com/editor/

    Have any opinions on the above tools? Other tools? General advice or questions? Let's try to close the gap and fill this forum with people who are almost as knowledgeable about art assets for mods as they are about modding code!
     
    r_b_bergstrom likes this.
  2. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    For item icons, I use GIMP. Because it works, and I'm used to it.
    For animations and sprites, I'd probably use GIMP too, seeing as it's the same kind of work - editing it pixel by pixel.
    And for skill icons, it depends on the style, but so far I only used GIMP and Sai for that.
     
  3. Dashen

    Dashen Member

    I only use Paint Shop Pro 7 because its really easy to zoom in and out quickly while editing pixel art/sprites, and its the only one i have ever used so i don't know any better. Also i have no tablet.
     
  4. MrAltamente

    MrAltamente Member

    well, i only make icons, but nevertheless i use the infamous "Photoshop CS5" ... im more used to it than paint ... ... although it can sometimes be the most trolling program ull ever encounter -.-'
    About tips and tricks... well i dont actually have any, what i do most of the time is search for an image where i can get my ideias from, then i just keep spamming 1pxl dots on a 32x32 square and BAM! an icon just got made! xD
     
  5. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I typically use Adobe Photoshop CS. Most of the higher-end features are sort of wasted since the pngs in the game are so tiny, but it's what I've got and am familiar with. For the record, I don't really like how it handles the color tables of the indexed pngs used in the game, as that ends up being a redundant pain in the butt as I have to pick each new color twice in a row. I've also found that you have to be really careful to remember to always save every file and then close photoshop before you launch Dredmor. If I leave photoshop open in the background while the game is accessing the files it was just editing, I end up with weird instabilities in photoshop when I return to it. So, I guess I _don't_ recommend photoshop - it's overpriced and overpowered for the sort of work you'll do on Dredmor.

    I've got a wacom "bamboo" tablet that was cheap and works pretty well. It's a little small, but it gets the job done and is much easier than the mouse.

    Most of the art in the game is at such a tiny resolution and file size that it doesn't take much effort to get decent results, especially on items. It's a lot less intimidating or frustrating than I thought it would be. (There's fewer hoops to jump through than for some other games I've modded.)

    The only real trick is to make sure you've got enough colors in your image. If you don't have enough variations for shading the image ends up looking really flat. Sometimes I do one pass just to get the shape in as a placeholder, and then later go back to fix the shading (and any other obvious screw-ups like too heavy of an outline) on another day (or in the next version of the mod).

    I generally don't cut-and-paste from outside images into the game files. Whatever time you might save by finding a picture on the internet ends up being lost again resizing and adjusting the indexed color palette.

    I never start from a new file. I copied and renamed pictures from the main game that matched the various size definitions and color tables, and now I always start by duplicating them. It eliminates several possible mistakes before you even get started.
     
  6. Loren

    Loren Member

    I see what you did there... If everyone knows how to make pixel art, I'd have to learn how to balance a mod myself to make new content. You almost caught me.

    I use Vi for my pixel art. Once you get used to it, you can see the colors in the text.


    (I use GIMP.)
     
  7. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    Photoshop. All Photoshop. For everything. I live in Photoshop.

    (And I'd be happy to answer any questions about workflow I used for anything, if there's curiosity skulking about. Not that there's a necessarily "right" answer for how to make art, of course.)
     
    Wi§p likes this.
  8. Loren

    Loren Member

    In another thread, you posted examples of your layered art. You've also mentioned using multiply on your outline layer. What does doing that accomplish over what a tablet w/ pressure sensitivity can do in normal mode? Am I missing something? I know multiply has a different effect with colors on its layer, but from what I remember, you use all black.The end effect seems interchangeable to me. I appreciate all the help I can get improving my work. Thank you.
     
  9. blob

    blob Member

    Photoshop for life.

    Multiplying is the layer where you put the colors. The black line you set in a layer in normal mode. The point is that the colors you paint on your multiply layer wont affect the line ( except darken it ) so you can easily paint without being afraid of messing up your original line.
    It is not a necessary trick for pixel art, but definitely is when painting illustrations.

    For animations I start doing them in photoshop using the layers as different animation frames. when I got a first decent pass I sometimes move to Gif movie gear to test the animation and change the frame rate more easily and tweak stuff. I usually dont use GIF movie gear when if I am making pixel art for a game though, mostly for animated gifs.

    If you re going for some environment set you probably want to save the colors in a palette that you ll save, this way you can load the set of colors used easily.

    Here's a good pixel art tutorial by Derek Yu http://www.derekyu.com/?page_id=218

    Buy a Tablet if you plan to do a lot of Art you will save a lot of time. It takes some times to get used to though. Any wacom tablet is great. Very consistent quality with their monopoly brand.

    I am not familiar with the tools you posted, they might be better.
    I havent tried it but there is also pixothello.
     
  10. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

    Well, another Photoshop Fanatic here. Photoshop is like my second girlfriend, I make love to her on a daily basis, getting me weird looks from the other girlfriend. (though she's sort of using it as well now....thanks to me muahaha).

    Anyhoo...actually, the main reason, I think, why mr. David Baumgart here uses multiply on the lineart layer is so he can work back and forth on the line using a white back ground and just using the quick eyedropper (alt+click) to quickly switch between painting the black of the lineart and the white of the background as if erasing (without having to switch to the eraser, which is slower and 'slows the flow'). It's sort of a painting method used by many digital artists with a 'need for speed'. As I like to call it.(it's also for blending)
    Hotkeys are awesome, get used to using them, the less time you spend clicking with your mouse not actually drawing and the more you spend actually drawing, the better.

    Though yeah, if you're not an artist by nature, the slow and deliberate nature of doing pixel art does make things more accessible to get adequate results. Though that doesn't mean it's easy to get really good results, just because you've got less room for error, doesn't mean you can just splather down a shape and some colours and be done with it, every pixel is important and tells something (not to mention most of the time things end up looking flat for not respecting the 3dimensionality of an object and using proper contrast)....just go do that tutorial Blob here already linked, it's extensive enough to get you started.
    And to get you started on getting your pixel art look even better, aside from pixel art technique, go here as well:
    http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm (extensive 'read', not everything applies though most of it, just look at the pictures if you don't like reading)

    I mostly do the animation in Photoshop itself as well. I use CS4 and it has plenty of animation options for me to draw adequate animations. Just draw them as seperate layers.
    First I roughly sketch the key frames out to get the feel for them (sometimes on paper to get a rough idea of the movement I want). Then start the tedious process of drawing the outlines of the key frames and then tweens (to make it smoother), throwing the colour beneath it and then on top of the colour put the shading (often keep those seperate for easy adjustments and layer masking).

    But, if I'm in a hurry (and don't want to tediously keep pushing pixels) to get a dirty, eh.. 'interesting' result. I work at 2 or 4 times the size of the end result, just use all my favourite brushes, paint everything on roughly the same layer (this is where it gets messy), sometimes even use the puppet warp tool to get what I want (and then touch up afterwards of course). Throw some textures on it in a top layer putting that layer on overlay.
    And once I'm done with that, while keeping in mind good contrast and size of the details. I scale the whole thing down to the size it should be, using bicubic sharper, touch up a few edges (especially the silhoutte, which has to be crisp clean). And done.

    My avatar was done like that, though it's still a little messy, and old. And it's not animated...It should be. Can I have an animated avatar here?

    I've been known to do some pixel art in the past in MS paint though, it works. Just not for animations so much.
     
    Daynab likes this.
  11. Animated avatars, unless Deek changes his mind, are a "hell no". Imagine a forum thread where the whole page is filled with avatars doing this, or worse:
    (note - I highly recommend scrolling the page up or down far enough so that you can't see these images. they're not the kind that induce seizures though; no strobing)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I'm glad to hear that everyone uses Photoshop. By default, Adobe Fireworks tries to open up whenever I open a .PNG file, which makes me feel like there's something wrong with me for using Photoshop instead. I have the whole CS 5.5 suit, and I pretty much only make use of Photoshop, Illustrator, and Dreamweaver. :(
     
    Essence likes this.
  12. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

    Fireworks is fairly pointless IMO, most of it's functions are just as easily replaced by clever use of Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver. Sure it has some nice integrations...but if you're used to using those other ones (and I feel it's lacking some neccesary features and streamlining) then yeah..

    I very much agree about the point of overly animated avatars though...yeah that's something sadly abused by many, same goes for signatures. Eugh, that is quite the horrible example you got there already though.

    Also: right mouse click on a png file>open with>choose default program/other and just set photoshop as default or an imageviewer. So no need to make yourself feel guilty all the time for having installed an overpacked adobe suite.
     
  13. blob

    blob Member

    +1 for alt click to pick a color, this is one of the most important trick to save time.
    Then there is the usual "space" to scroll around, ctrl+space to zoom in, ctrl +alt + space to zoom out. Mastering any shortcut to reduce on clicking time will double your efficiency.
    Last but not least switch between color 1 and 2 with "x"

    Giraffe you can have animated avatars on this forum but I do not know the conditions. The animator of Dod does have an animated avatar here.
    Is there a place where we can see you previous works by the way ? I'm curious. : )
     
  14. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    re. Multiply layer:
    What Giraffe said is correct. I can't be bothered to flip my pen around to switch to eraser mode so I just have my left hand on "x" and switch the secondary/primary colours from black to white (or hit 'd' to reset them to black and white if I've been using some other colour).

    I also find it helpful to have a quick hand on the number keys to set brush opacity and on whatever it is, shift or alt or something (I know it by feel, not by name!) to pull the eyedropped -- it takes no time at all to create a range of shades.

    The link you post to Niklas Jansson's art tutorial is exactly the one I send to anyone looking to get into digital art. That guy is brilliant. I think his approach of building broad and fundamental art skills is more valuable than the intentionally retro/formalistic pixel art tutorials. Not that classic pixel art doesn't have value, it's just it's better to see what conscious choices that artist made based on underlying principles than to simply repeat the style without consideration. Likewise with any art. Admittedly, we don't all have time to build broad art skills unless it's a professional interest or dedicated hobby.

    Horsemeat:
    You can just set pngs to open in something else, can't you? I was never impressed with Fireworks either. Photoshop is life!

    (re. Animated Avatars & signatures:
    Must admit, I have much hate for these and all sorts of bells and whistles you see on the interwebs. Last thing I want on my message board is to see more bedamned repeating banners. I actually turned off signatures on here; you'll find the option somewhere in the display options, if you're into that. Y'all are lucky you can even have avatars; I was argued down to allowing them even if they despoil my realm of pure and beautiful Platonic communication.)
     
    Kazeto and Psiweapon like this.
  15. Psiweapon

    Psiweapon Member

    GrafX2, GrafX2, GrafX2.

    I've used that program since years ago. It covers everything you might need for doing 256 color art / pixel art, and a few other things you don't need but that sure come in handy. It's on active development again. In fact that goddamn program taught me to think in pixel art terms - before I knew what pixel art was.

    Pros:
    You can set up shading tools, edit the palette to your heart's content, set particular colors as non-editable, use masks, has a grid for all your tileset/spritesheet edition needs, even though it's 256 color native you can define colors both in RGB and HSL, supports layers via abuse of gif frames, it even has customizable hotkeys! (for example, I changed my navigation keys from the arrow keys to WASD, just like in games! much more comfortable this way!) etc, etc, etc. I could rant on and on for weeks about this program's features, it is made of WIN and GOLD with an icing of AWESOME. It's a unique program designed by a bunch of Amiga freaks that puts all the power of pixel-pushing into your hands.

    Cons:
    256 color native , which might put off some people (such as our admired art director above posting)

    Seriously, I recommend this for anyone who's thinking of getting into pixel art. For animation tests I just slap together anything I've come up with in unFREEz.

    Tips? Read all tutorial availables, gawk over art at pixeljoint and way of the pixel. Listen to advice but never to the claims of any One True Way. Do things you enjoy and keep pressing on.
     
    Kazeto and dbaumgart like this.
  16. badboy80

    badboy80 Member

    I used GIMP and Photoshop, and I find GIMP to be easier to use. It's alot easier to redefine the area of a selection, transform parts of an image, and I feel that the Bezier pen is easier to handle. Photoshop however is alot more versatile with more design functions. If you just need to do beginner stuff, I think that GIMP is best.
     
  17. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    ETG Entropy Swirlies FTW!
     
  18. So if you had your way, we'd all be looking at a brown forum, with brown text on it, and no pictures? That would be depressing! I'd have to buy a newspaper in a desperate attempt to verify I can still see colors!
     
    Wi§p likes this.