Could it be possible to include a system where if a character attacks (physical and casting) for a specific amount of turns within a specific turn interval based on the weight of the weapon (requiring each weapon be individually weighted) as well as damage taken causing burliness, sagacity, nimbleness, caddishness, savvy and stubbornness to all be taken into account in which the only ways of recovering are either waiting a long cool down time (ex 125 turns per stage) or by a combination of eating (food) and drinking (potion) which after consuming both lowers a stage after 45 instead? This would allow for more of an emphasis that the player has physical limitations, creating the disapproval of other weapon types for a weapon class which exhaustion when using the selected weapon type would decrease, limits to casting balancing classes such as Promethean magic and Necromancy in comparison to more stealth and less so warrior oriented classes. I have below a template which because I do not have the time, ability or resources to program a mod for this, could be subject to large changes. burliness: each level decreases exhaustion created by physical attacks and taking physical damage (crushing, slashing, piercing, blast,). sagacity: each level decreases the exhaustion of of magic attacks and casting spells. nimbleness: each level decreases the exhaustion of dodging enemy attacks, player movement and counter attacking. caddishness: each level decreases the exhaustion of counter attacking, conditional attacks and taking conditional damages (hyperborean, acidic, toxic, putrefying, asphyxiative and existential). savvy: each level decreases the physical strain of perceiving enemies, crossbow attacks and haywire attacks. stubbornness: each level decreases the physical strain of blocking and magic related damages (conflagratory, voltaic, righteous, necromantic, transmutative and aetheral) Each ability replaces the other when exhaustion levels rise stage 1: Need to catch a breath burliness, sagacity, nimbleness, caddishness, savvy and stubbornness -1 each crushing, toxic, putrefying, existential , conflragatory resistance -1 Asphyxiative resistance -3 -8 health -1 health regeneration 1 asphyxiative damage per 3 turns (set # for damage values on all stages) stage 2: Wearing under stress burliness, sagacity, nimbleness, caddishness, savvy and stubbornness -3 each crushing, toxic, putrefying, existential , conflragatory resistance -2 Asphyxiative resistance -5 -16 health -3 health regeneration 1 asphyxiative damage per turn Stage 3: Endocrine explosion sagacity, nimbleness and, savvy -7 each burliness, caddishness and stubbornness -4 each crushing, toxic, putrefying, existential , conflragatory resistance -3 Asphyxiative resistance -8 -24 health -9 health regeneration 3 asphyxiative damage per turn After effect of endocrine explosion: Stress recovery (stacks on top of level 1 and 2 stress levels) sagacity, nimbleness and, savvy -2 each Asphyxiative resistance -2 -4 health -2 health regeneration 2 asphyxiative damage per 3 turns stage 4: Breaking point sagacity, nimbleness and, savvy -12 each burliness, caddishness and stubbornness -8 each crushing, toxic, putrefying, existential , conflragatory resistance -6 Asphyxiative resistance -15 -48 health -27 health regeneration 9 asphyxiative damage per turn After effect of endocrine explosion: On the edge (stacks on top of level 1, 2 and 3 exhaustion levels) sagacity, nimbleness and, savvy -4 each burliness, caddishness and stubbornness -3 each crushing, toxic, putrefying, existential , conflragatory resistance -1 Asphyxiative resistance -2 -12 health -5 health regeneration 2 asphyxiative damage per turn
Interesting and well-thought-out idea, but I really think it has no place whatsoever in DoD. DoD is a simpler roguelike, while still maintaining the ridiculous difficulty. A system like this... I can barely understand it the way you've written it out, and I'm usually good with stuff like this
Sometimes I have difficulty understanding myself as well, but the point I wanted to make with this idea though is there should be more of a sense of alertness and tactics in the game where every move you make counts and you can't just go in and kill everything, providing instead that one must avoid trouble whenever possible, balancing the Skill savvy with other skills such as burliness. I find it a bit generous of the game that one can consistently kill with no side effects in which it should punish the player for overworking the character beyond normal bounds.
It's not an intrinsically bad idea for putting into a game, but putting into Dredmor -- and at this point in the game's lifecycle -- wellll ... that's probably not a good idea. The upheaval of core mechanics alone would make everything explode and throw off people who have learned the systems already. It'd make more sense to put this in a new game altogether. In those heady early days of the design process we did discuss a number of alternate enabling and limiting mechanics; I forget if one was like this, but stamina as a non-magic mana pool for non-magic abilities-which-are-actually-spells is something games like WoW certainly use for rogues and warriors. You can still find sound files for "Momentum!" in the game; this was going to be a sort of melee attack charge-up system. I wonder, though. One could make the proposed system using mana, perhaps, though that'd be thrown off by how spells work. If we had a very generous set of new modding hooks, it might work, but that may be getting abstract. By here I'm really just speculating, so I'll wrap up and say that no, it is unreasonable to put this in the core game but a form of what you propose might be moddable in the future.
Actually no, but that's how I feel the game should be played to enhance the gameplay experience involving combat and progression in which a person has a limit to what they can do enhanced by leveling up, giving a sense of confidence and security as a player traverses through levels.
I feel honored to have one of the core members of Gaslamp games to reply to my post. I understand that the game is too late in the development cycle to include such a mechanic because it would throw off all of the strategies set in place but I am glad to hear that my ideas have some viability. A system that forces players to decide which enemies to kill and which one's to avoid while following a more stealth based structure, does not fit Dredmor but could be proposed in another title given other development conditions are met. The issue I wanted to bring up though is that the Savvy attribute does not offer enough to the player in which the stealth skill does not impact gameplay to a high degree. I was wondering if in either DLC or a patch, have stealth be readjusted in some way that it becomes more viable in which either enemies can be indirectly killed more effectively, or have an ability that would allow for the player to sneak up on and instantly kill an enemy through a backstab or ranged attack allowing for assassination based skills to be more effective on bigger targets and allow for enemies to not see you. I hope this issue is addressed sometime in the near future in which it would allow for more diverse and exciting runs compared to a pure warrior or mage build. Also on a side note, loading wand recipes from a bookshelf still causes game crashes on some operating systems.
But it can still be regenerated rather easily given the opportunity so why not have it so one cannot fight forever because resources at times should not directly affect the ability for a character to fight in which the characters themselves have a limit, causing them to be unable to head directly back into action and force the player to abide to that, making time more so a necessity than an optional form of recovery.
This is an entry-level roguelike, one that maintains the difficulty while focusing on simplicity. I'm sorry, but there are plenty of complicated roguelikes already. Some people like the premise of roguelikes but are intimidated by how astronomically complicated they can get. This suggestion would detract from the appeal of DoD. I'm sorry.
Because unless the whole game is made around making stealth a viable possibility, it would be like putting an arbitrary limit on every possible form of attack the player has. And once said limit had been exhausted, there would be nothing one could do to defend himself. That, combined with the fact that we have monster zoos there, makes it a really non-viable idea. Because if the player became fatigued enough to be incapable of fighting while he's besieged by monsters from one, then it would just become an endless source of frustration for the player. And if the player could clean an entire monster zoo before becoming fatigued enough not to be able to fight, then the limits would be much too high for moments when you don't have a horde of monsters set upon yourself, and thus this mechanic would only serve as additional source of tedium. That being said, it's not like we can't create things for the game that would confer benefits for the player but make him weaker for a time in return. But the difference is, this time it would be players' own choice to weaken themselves for the short future in exchange for some power here and now. And if stealth really was a viable, and default, tactic, then such a system would indeed serve to increase the challenge without becoming fake difficulty upper, since combat would be something that either happens when the player screws up, or on a battlefield prepared beforehand by said player to increase the odds of getting through the battle alive.
No need to be sorry, I understand that it is impossible to apply to DoD as of now but it is an idea for rogue likes that want to implement that sort of mechanic in which it would greatly enhance the difficulty of maintaining a build in which magic, warrior and stealth classes can be properly balanced.
True if there were to be no compensation for these mechanics, a stealth only system would be the only viable option, but what I had in mind was that abilities selected would heavily counter these exhaustions and allow for a warrior or a mage to a reasonable degree without over-reaching its boundaries, forcing a player to stick to the attributes selected at the beginning of the game (ex. a character with the ax proficiency will be punished for using a staff) and for escapes, mana is not heavily effected by exhaustion in the layout above, allowing for the use of a spacial instability potion, trans-dimensional leap or psychokinetic shove to save your character's life and come up with various ways to avoid enemies while running away from a fight.
For what it's worth, personally if your ideas of mechanics would be in a brand new roguelike, I'd be intrigued and want to try it for sure.
Thank you, but I do not have the time or the resources to do this in which if I had the knowledge and abilities to do it, I would be to involved with other thing in my life and with game balancing and the many things I would do, It would take an incredibly long time. That's why I'm here, to spread my ideas and get them into programming utilizing the knowledge, capabilities and resources of developers.
We have discussed expanding the role of sneakiness and stealth in Dredmor so that rogues can be a bit more feasible/interesting to play. Said discussions are purely academic right now but it's definitely something I think can be done better with a few new simple mechanics.
I am glad that suggestions exist in which I wish not to press on you the urge to further spread this discussion because you are fully entitled to do whatever you wish with your time but I do thank you for replying to my post and giving an official standpoint on the matter.
