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Magical Law Capstone is probably too powerful

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Ruigi, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. Ruigi

    Ruigi Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Wright's Irrefutable Argument (magic law capstone skill) makes it possible to reset a cooldown for 16 mana.

    This makes it incredibly powerful when combined with a skill like rogue scientist, which has many powerful cooldown abilities.

    It also breaks any cooldown abilities that are extremely powerful and use a high cooldown timer to offset this power. for example: Manacalypse.

    a smart player could easily Manacalypse, mana potion, *reset*, Manacalypse. in four turns.
    even worse, a player could spam rogue scientist alchemical gas canisters.

    My initial reaction is that this effect is too powerful as a spell and needs to be changed to a cooldown ability instead, however, since this is only my initial reaction, I think this potential exploit should be tested for brokenness.
     
  2. Incomp

    Incomp Member

    Ooh sounds like it would go nicely with the Charge of the Steam Brigade.

    Maybe have mana cost scale with cooldown reduced?
     
  3. Isn't it supposed to reset a *random* cooldown skill? I mean if you set it up so that you've only got one really good one, sure, but that level of devotion warps an entire build and gives you a great ability at the cost of using exactly no other cooldowns.
    And if it resets a specific cooldown, then I think it's bugged. I mean, the skill description says "at random", so I'm assuming that it's actually at random - I've yet to cap the skill myself.
     
  4. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    The point is, there are ways to make sure that the only skill on cooldown is one that is really powerful. And for as long as you do that, this particular skill makes it possible for you to reset its cooldown with a mere 16 mana. I agree with Ruigi that it is too powerful right now, or at least too exploitable.
     
  5. jhffmn

    jhffmn Member

    It doesn't seem that powerful to me. Cooldown abilities aren't really stronger than mana cost abilities. Manacalypse does come with the draw back of emptying out your mana already, so that interaction requires a third ingredient (mana potion or fungi) and to have a reliable stream of those you need a third skill set.

    You could have the same amount of power just taking necroeconomics or egyptian magic. Sandstorm and rift will clear out a room just as easily.
     
  6. jhffmn

    jhffmn Member

    I don't really think it's that strong. With manacalypse you need a third ingredient (potion/fungi/etc) to recast and to reliably have that you need a third skill. That's a lot of build devotion to get that working for you and requires consumables. Not to mention that to use reliably, you can't have anything else on CD and there are a lot of useful skills that have CDs.

    For the most part, mana costing spells are more powerful than the CD abilities anyway. I don't see any problem with allowing CD abilities to be recast for mana at the cost of both a turn of action given a 6 skill point investment into another line.

    There are a lot of ways your character can be super powered by the time you hit level 18 or so. If it was posible to be overpowered at level 6 with this, I'd agree. But there are plenty of late blossoming builds.
     
  7. Aegho

    Aegho Member

    There are other really powerful cooldown abilities than manaclypse, that don't empty your mana. Spam earthquakes, gas canisters, steam brigade charges, etc, not to forget various mod abilities.
     
  8. Wait, can it randomly select a cooldown that's already been, uh, cooled down? IE if you've got three cooldown skills and you're only waiting for one of them to reset, will it always reset that skill or will it reset one of the three, at random, and just be wasted if it selects one you weren't waiting for? Because if it's the former then yeah, that's very powerful and easy to engineer stuff like spamming Charge of the Steam Brigade or whatever, but if it's the latter you need to set up a build with no weak cooldown skills to get it working, since pretty much all the good cooldown skills come at the end of a long line of weaker cooldown skills (I think the only exception is manacalypse, which, yeah, is probably broken either way).
     
  9. I'm really not sure the gas canister with wright's irrefutable argument is going to compare that favorably to other capstone abilities, and they don't require going halfway through another skill path AND putting points into a third to get reasonable damage. Plus the gas canister tends to land in places where you didn't shoot it, and takes four turns to fully deploy.

    Vs. say, tenebrous rift, which is one capstone, and possibly some other effects to mitigate the necro debuffs (though a lot of that is gear in my experience)

    It's certainly GOOD but I'm not particularly certain it's more powerful than other capstone abilities?

    I'm not sure about manacalypse though I haven't played with that skill. (That might also be fixable by adjusting manacalypse to not play as nicely with this ability?)
     
  10. Null

    Null Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Implement modifying cooldowns by a specific amount, make it reduce the cooldown by a good number of turns instead of resetting it.
    (If you are doing this can you please add the ability to mod all cooldowns or specific spell cooldowns)
     
    Kazeto, shaken and Aegho like this.
  11. Aegho

    Aegho Member

    I was thinking along the same lines. Perhaps change this spell to reducing cooldowns by about 10-20 turns, for all spells? That would make it useful to chain short (under 30 turn) cooldown abilities, while not being abusable for longer ones.
     
    Kazeto likes this.
  12. I mean, it IS a capstone ability I'd assume using it on longish cooldowns is expected. Just maybe not manacalypse long.
     
  13. DoDgirl

    DoDgirl Member

    I disagree it's too powerful. If you've the skill and intellect to use a skill to it's maximum ability then you deserve just that. If the skill had 3000 CD and you've now got a weapon in your arsenal to fix this, do so.
     
  14. Konork

    Konork Member

    If it's going to get nerfed, I think it'd be better to change it to a cooldown skill itself, instead of reducing how much it reduces cooldowns or increasing the mana cost or anything like that.