Hello all! I am new to Dredmor-ing, and after messing around a few attempts, searching through various threads whenever I needed advice, I decided to introduce myself and ask some questions directly. First off, should I always be pouring all my points into a single skill in the beginning? So far, beyond a point into either Burglary or Archaeology (depending on which I'm using) for extra exp, I always find myself pouring everything I have into one skill for its capstone. Also, encrusting. what's the deal with it? should I bother looking into it if I'm not carrying around crafting skills? I've read that it has a chance of causing my equipment to break. Is this true? Or is it a situational thing, like the Worst Idea Ever? Finally: skills. I've been messing around with various skills, trying to find a build that works, but I have yet to get past floor 3 (to be fair, that's usually because I walk into a mysterious portal full of really high level enemies, or forget about a trap or something). Currently rolling with Necronomeconomics Astrology Unarmed Archaeology/Burglary Viking Magic Leylines Magical Law I get lvl 2 of the rogue skill and then pump necro for delicious c'thulhu magics. The problem I'm running into is that I'm not really aiming to play as a gish, per se. I mainly want to be a pure caster (because magic tends to mean options in games. also its fun!) Problem is I can't really find any good single target spells beyond Thor's bolt, and it's making it very hard to delve into utility magics when I need so many gish schools. Plus, I need the gish stuff or else I have nothing to defend myself with early game. ANyone have any suggestions? Thanks, and sorry for this thread again. I'm well aware of how annoying these can get.
Running to a capstone is a good way to play but it just depends on your build and what you deem to be most important. I for instance wouldn't grab the Necro Rift before I had a reliable escape. Survival is always more important than absurd damage numbers. Encrusting is mostly for focused crafters but there are a few you can use without any skill and it's possible to pick up some crafting skills from items. It can curse your equipment in horrific ways but almost never on the first encrust. There's a thread about it around here somewhere.... You can go any number of routes with skills but if you want to be more of a pure caster I suggest swapping maybe Astro and Viking for something a bit more pure like Promethean, Golemancy, or Mathemagic. They give you more tools for long range avoidance so you don't have to be in melee. Promethean has a summon, Golemancy has summons and the incredibly useful unliving wall. Mathemagic has the best teleport in the game.
There's no generalization that can be made as to whether you should complete a skill before you put points into any other skill. Keep in mind that there are some really good low-tier skills out there, and that not all top-tier skills are going to help you to survive where ever you happen to be in the dungeon. What I do FIRST is look at what my choices are, and decide what will be the most help immediately. If I think that I'm doing really good for the depth I'm at, only then do I start thinking long-term. First goal should always be survive to the next level, and second... do that 14 times in a row. As far as encrusting is concerned, TheKirkUnited is exactly right. But I did write a crafting guide that may be of interest. I do have a chapter on Encrusting): http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=164426644 Necro is a skill that doesn't quite bloom into maturity until later on, so you may want to start out as a gish/melee until that happens. Of Archaeology vs. Burglary, I generally prefer Burglary for its survival skills. The teleport is cool, but what's cooler is burglary's Ninja Vanish, which I can't stress too much the coolness of. But Mathemagics is totally fine also. Honestly, your skill choices are fine. I like unarmed+viking magic. I used to use that combo a lot, maybe throwing in Berserk Rage or some other skill that adds damage at the first tier. The logic behind the choice is that Necro is a slow-building skill, and you need something to survive your first level or two until you can start using Necro attacks like crazy. But Kirk is right in that Viking Magic overall is not the greatest skill. It's not a skill that I tend to urgently want to put points into until later in the game. A better alternative might be Egyptian Magic -- it gives you the same +damage to melee that Viking Magic does, but has better long-term utility.
well, the problem with unarmed/viking isn't so much that they're bad skills, it's that I'm trying to go pure mage, not gish, and Viking magic has the only real single target nuke I can find for mages. The main reason I tend to pump Necro early is for dealing with Monster Zoos, but I was able to clear one with nothing but my boot one time, so I suppose I might be able to pull it off without getting Rift realy quickly. Any ideas for single target magic? THe only non-viking options I know of are Psionics (which I've heard has mediocre damage output) and Mathemagic (which I hear is weak against dremor, who would be the main target of this)
You are going to have to melee regardless of your build, up until at least you get your mage skills up to snuff. Your build is NOT a gish build, it just happens to make the sensible choice of giving you an option to melee until Necro comes into full bloom. But I suppose if you aren't playing on going rogue, that doing without melee would be an option IF you get very lucky, or if you have an alternate way of surviving the first level (or however long it takes to get decent spells that you can manage the mana for). And if that truly is your goal, then drop unarmed. THAT'S the only real melee skill that you chose. It's not a bad skill for a mage. And if you are making changes, then you may as well drop Viking Magic also. The only thing I will say is that if you are making changes, I much prefer Fungal Arts over Golemancy -- both will give you a pet at tier 2, but Fungal Arts gives you a lot more flexibility.
Early game melee builds is much easier to survive than early game caster. I would have probably put more points in unarmed. I am quite the opposite of you. I rarely if ever go for capstones. There are to many other super valuable skills in other trees that need getting. The major problem with crafting is that even the low level recipes are largely unavailable to you due to the limited nature of materials. once the materials are accessible (by having mapped out 4-7 floors) you dont need the meager boost they offer. One exception to that is the ingot press. The gaga coatings that add 5 are invaluable early game, especially to a rogue/caster as you can increase your hitpoints by 15which is around a 40-50% increase. The meat isn't that hard to come by, as you can get two tomes of little red cookbooks on the first floor fairly often, which proc steak frequently. The biggest challenge is often finding an ingot press that early as mage or rogue. I have played NTTG and haven't found one until floor 8, which was horrible. If you were looking to switch out a skill, i would pick up tinkering, which would greatly improve your survivability with traps, give you access to some tinkering crusts, and start you with a press immediately.
The exception to this rule is Alchemy, which can give you immediate results even without putting points in, and the materials, for example, for healing potions are very common. It certainly gets much better with more points, but you don't need a lot of points to gain substantial benefits. And the ability to transmute gems into one another will help you later on. (btw, Alchemy synergizes with both Piracy and Fungal Arts, and is the prototypical mage crafting skill as it gives you not only potions, but the best craftable mage gear). /edit Also your comments, while partly relevant to both Smithing, and to a lesser extent, Tinkering, can be offset with an investment in Perception (the more points, the more ore and ingots you'll get). Perception is helpful for all crafting skills, but is only really essential (at least in my opinion) for Smithing and Tinkering and NOT for a mage build. Smithing and Tinkering, while useful for any build, is not quite as useful for a mage as it is for a melee builld, BTW, in runs I've done with Alchemy, I usually end up with well over 100 to 150 spare healing potions by the time I meet Dredmor, (plus plenty of invisibility potions, gas flasks, and other miscellaneous goodies) and that's WITHOUT Perception to help me.
Well, the main problem I have with the unarmed melee buffing strat I'm working with thus far is that it kinda kills the variety in the game for me. The main appeal I tend to have with casters is having a lot of options with which to have a bunch of cool things can do. Thus far my game largely revolves around throwing on Pact of Fleeting Life, hiding in a corner and kicking everything to death. Any ideas on how to get more out of a mage than I'm currently getting?
Try some of these skills: Promethian Magic: The spells may not be single-target, but boy howdy will they do damage. Also gives you passive fire resistance, which is one of the most common damage types in the game. Mathemagic : SO MUCH UTILITY. Level 1 gives you a random blink to (sometimes) escape trouble, level 2 gives you an amazing debuff for elite/named monsters, level 3 lets you get a TON of gold if you're patient / have lots of mana, level 4 gives you stackable mage buff, level 5 is probably the best teleport skill in the game, and level 6 is a great DoT/debuff spell. Shield Bearer : This is great for increasing your survivability, especially because mage orbs also count as shields. You get +8 Block from the start, and another 12 going up the tree. The level 2 passive gives you a 20% chance when hit to gain +1 Crushing Resistance, +2 Stubbornness, +2 Armor, +10 Block, +4 Health Regen for 24 turns. You lose 1 Melee Power and 1 Nimbleness in return, but it's SO worth it. Fungal Arts : Mushrooms are great utility items, and this gives you a lot more of them. It also gives you a summon spell very early, which is great for distracting enemies so you can hit them from a distance. Alchemy : Potions are excellent for supplementing your utility as a mage since they offer so many different effects. Alchemy also lets you craft some mage gear and some of the best types of booze in the game. Potions of Purity are great for getting rid of the debuffs from Necronomiconomics. The biggest hurdle in Alchemy is finding the right reagents for your potions; if that becomes a problem for you then consider swapping Alchemy for Fungal Arts. Fleshsmithing : This is more gishy than pure mage, but it's one of my favorites. The first level summon spell can give you a horde of zombies to tank while you crush your enemies, and the second level is a fairly strong healing spell. Since I rarely level this skill past level two I'm not sure how the other spells are, but the first two spells help your early game immensely.
Just to disagree with Haldurson, because because, you don't in fact ever have to melee with a mage. You just have to get a little lucky. If you take Wandcrafting, Fleshsmithing, and Promethean Magic, you can pull what I call the Zomby Gambit. Basically, restart until you get a decent offensive wand. Then nuke the first creature you come across to death, and use its corpse to turn into a Zomby. Then pace about until your mana regens -- this will cause spawns to build up, which is a good thing. Then, open a door, and hopefully you'll stumble into a couple of monsters. Nuke one while your Zomby hits the other, and try to kill them in adjacent squares. Use Zombification to raise them both, and proceed apace, using Zombys to kill weak creatures to create more Zombys. Then use the Zombys to bring Promethean up to Wyrmling -- and the Wrymling will eat floors 1 and 2 for you, particularly if you kill off all your Zombys, raise a Wyrmling, and then raise 8 more Zombys. Combine with Ley Line Walking, Mathemagic, Alchemy, and Blood Magic for easy all-purpose, all-wizard adventuring. Well, that depends on what you want. I personally love the combination of Necronomiconomics, Warlockery, Unarmed, Shield Mastery, Armor Mastery, Blood Magic, and Emomancy. But that's because I really do like just kicking stuff to death sprinkled in with some fun 'tricks' like Arcane Capacitor, Warlock's Challenge, and the Rune of Apathy. If you want a mage with some extreme diversity, you can always go for mods. Sweet Sweet Swag, Wind Magic, Radiant Wizard...oh, the mods...
Well, maybe it's the way I play, but I never start a game thinking that I'll just restart if I get unlucky with my starting equipment. I go all in with whatever the RNG gods give me, which means that I try to take control of my fate rather than depend on luck. But I totally agree that Wand lore has the potential to give you some really decent starting gear. But I don't like depending so much on luck. But maybe that's just me. Also, it has the downside of my never wanting to take wand lore ever, unless I'm doing a themed challenge (such as a pure crafter). I'm actually doing a themed challenge right now: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/dodcr/discussions/0/846963710920491601/ (just cleared the zoo on level 6, and going strong due to a robbing Brax twice of an absurdly good weapon and chest armor). Note that the only time I've ever put points into Wand Lore was when I was simply trying to get the achievement. I almost never actually craft a wand.
Well, the suggestion of Tinkering and Alchemy were attempted, but having both made me figure I might as well try Rogue Scientist...and it was awesome. I actually had options in combat and I had genuine objectives beyond 'survive until rift'. Unfortunately, I died on floor 4's monster zoo because I didn't notice I was standing on top of a fire for like, 5 turns. I'm going to try another Rogue Scientist, but I'm not sure what to make my last two skills. Right now I'm Rogue Scientist Alchemy Tinkering Magical Law (because I'm going to want cooldown refresh with RS's stuff) Burglary (technically its original purpose has been covered with Tinkering and Rogue scientist, but the utility still might come in handy. Plus infinite Lockpicks) My first run of this had Shield Bearer (moar defenses! kinda useless though, since I was using really awesome polearms I found instead of shields) and Astrology (dat Radiant Aura). I'm thinking of switching them to piracy and/or perception, since I need mroe loot, as I was in a MAJOR shortage of steel, which made it difficult to build crossbows for random mooks. Also considering Thrown weapons or archery for the bombs and arrows I'm going to be building. Any advice here?
Glad you found a build that you like and satisfies your requirements. A great skill that goes with crafting heavy builds, especially alchemy and tinkering is paranormal investigator. Skepticism is the best skill in the game as I have stated elsewhere. Xenochemistry is probably the best transmutation skill in the game. And Alien Autopsy means that you WILL eventually get all the recipes you need for both your professions. And I have done pretty much the exact build you did and loved it. -Rogue Scientist -Alchemy -Tinkering -Perception -Burglary -Paranormal Law -Archaeology. Also, if you level chemistry to 4 or more early, all the diggle eggs and alchemical ooze mean you can make TONS of Noxious brimstone flasks which are auto win zoo clears through about floor 10.
