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When can we expect the 1.0.4 patch?

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by stevebrixius, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. stevebrixius

    stevebrixius Member

    I guess this question is really for the developers... Is there a time-frame for when we can expect to see the 1.0.4 patch launched?
     
  2. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    The delaying factor with this is that we're all actually completely broke and need to work to make rent and/or are in the process of moving to a new city. Basically, August totally and completely sucks for all of us.

    Nicholas should be getting settled in to his new apartment (and into our new-old office) in the next week and Gaslamp should get its first ever earned income at the end of this month. (That'll be a happy day!)

    September should really, really pick up the pace on Dredmor work. I suspect we can do 1.0.4 before then if all goes well, but I can't promise anything for sure 'til we see how things shake out.
     
  3. stevebrixius

    stevebrixius Member

    Awesome and thanks for a totally great game! Keep up the great work!
     
  4. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    Valve is making you wait that long before your first check?
     
  5. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    @stevebrixius : It's our pleasure!

    @fishofmuu : This is pretty standard timing in business-to-business stuff. It's not in itself a problem, more like we're just in a tough situation due to being a bootstrapped startup. We're going to be much better off after this first rough patch especially as we diversify distribution services.
     
  6. DerpTyrant

    DerpTyrant Member

    You want to be an awesome and epic company right? I suggest you start releasing smaller patches, but faster.
    For example, you sad you had more then half things done (the list) few weeks ago. You could just release that already as a patch (or hotfix or whatever). It's a lot of IMPORTANT stuff, that is ruining the game. I never really understood why developers needs weeks to release a big bug-fix patch, while they could just release more smaller ones, or hotfix them right away.
    I know you have problem with moving and stuff right now, but you could've done it right after you fixed half of that stuff. You should just release all of that RIGHT NOW :)

    Well keep up the good work with this awesome game and hurry up, be cause I really wanna play something else besides a mage in GR :p

    Thanks
     
  7. rmuk

    rmuk Member

    Stick with it guys! A month of noodles & cheap coffee never done anyone any harm - Plus it's great character building... Every indie studio needs a rags to riches story :p

    That first payday is going to be sweet though ;)
     
  8. Desi

    Desi Member

    @DerpTyrant I don't know how Steam operates, but it may cost money to release patches and extra content (this is possibly one of the reasons why EA wanted Valve to allow them to release extra content from within their games, thus bypassing any fees). If it does, then big patches would be most practical for a poor dev.
     
  9. applekid

    applekid Member

    I took a week and a half break. So the game hasn't received a big patch since its release correct?
     
  10. DerpTyrant

    DerpTyrant Member

    @Desi Oh that would be just stupid. But honestly, I think what I'm saying is just perfect. If devs have more then half stuff fixed already, why not just release a smaller patch to fix it. Especially dual-wielding, haywire, smith, prome and all the important stuff.
     
  11. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    @DerpTyrant With patches halfway done, there are often a lot of holes left. There are inevitably more bugs, and lots of programmers (like myself) HATE doing that. In the state that the devs are in, it seems more like the problem is getting the time to really sit down and make sure the broken things are actually fixed. I agree with you that small patches are sometimes better, but even small patches need to be tested extensively, and it doesn't seem that time is a luxury they have. Also, with more than one dev, you have to make sure that all the chefs are satisfied, so to speak.

    I think once the devs have settled down into their office, they can crank out a patch no problem. They're not really in much position, it seems, to make things happen.
     
  12. aunthemod

    aunthemod Member

    I agree with DerpTyrant

    having an rpg with a broken lvling mechanic is bad enough but then also knowing that it'll be fixed sooner or later makes it currently unplayable.

    plz hurry with fixing bugs in character growth >.<
     
  13. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    @aunthemod What? The only broken leveling mechanic is the fact that Warriors don't get as much health as other classes. Maybe I'm lucky, but it doesn't break the game, mostly because I end up half rogue/half warrior. Until Smithing becomes a warrior only skill.

    To you, and Derp, I have to point out, releasing a patch early can be extremely bad. You think the game has issues now, if they release the patch without fully testing it, the bugs you have now, would be nothing compared to what would happen after the patch went live.

    Never rush a patch for a game, it can break everything.
    Look at Master of Orion 3. The game failed horribly because the Beta testers wanted it released too soon.
    Without their whining about releasing it, they could have found enough bugs that the game wouldn't go and make Big Rigs Racing look only slightly worse.

    I'm serious here, never ever want a patch released early, it can break a game forever.
     
  14. Misery

    Misery Member

    @DavidB1111

    Agreed.

    I'd rather wait for a patch that's well thought-out and done RIGHT, then get one RIGHT THIS SECOND that just causes more trouble, bugs, and imbalances.

    Unfortunately, this never satisfies alot of players; I think alot of them seriously have no idea how difficult coding/design/testing/whatever is, and how time-consuming it is.


    And if the devs havent gotten their first check yet and are having financial issues in addition to moving, I say.... let them deal with those problems FIRST. They're not robots, existing just to pump out code at us. Does bother me that so many people tend to think that way about devs.

    .....and I too question the "broken levelling mechanic". If there's something strange about the way the level-up system currently works, I am not aware of it. Someone care to clarify, perhaps?
     
  15. J-Factor

    J-Factor Member

    Isn't there a beta testing build? I think it was mentioned on the IRC.

    If you're avid enough that you don't mind bugs you might want to check that out.
     
  16. Embolus

    Embolus Member

    The leveling mechanic is currently broken for Warriors and Mages.

    Warriors are supposed to get 2 Caddishness per level instead of none, and Mages are not supposed to get any Caddishness (as opposed to 2). The result is Warriors get 6 stats on level up and Mages get 10, which means Mages have the highest HP (as well as critical chance and counter chance which it really shouldn't get) and Warriors have the lowest HP (and no critical and counter).

    In other words, Mages are currently way too good in melee and have far too much survivability than they should, and Warriors are way too bad at melee and far too fragile than they should.

    If all you choose are Rogue skills then you wouldn't notice anything wrong with the leveling system.
     
  17. Misery

    Misery Member

    @Embolus

    Ah, thank you for the explanation.

    This may perhaps be why I keep hearing "Mages are OP" all over the boards.

    I havent gone and played a pure mage yet... I usually prefer sort of a mix of skill types anyway. Until the game patches, I probably WONT try a pure mage, since that really does sound like "easy mode".
     
  18. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Member

    I think that, in an age where indie devs are more numerous and popular than ever, people (myself included) are a bit spoiled when it comes to updates. It used to be that you had to wait months, even a year or two, before a patch went live (Diablo II comes to mind). Now you have updates being released within weeks or even days.

    On one hand, it's good, because indie devs simply don't have the work force to beta test as fully as big companies that have scores of staff dedicated to it. On the other hand, however, it means that more games come out with bugs that can be nasty. 100 Rogues had huge, recurring problems with this, and now they are still struggling to find success.

    In the long run, though, the more we wait, the more likely it is that the patch will be complete and more sound. So I think you guys should take your time, and release when you feel that it's your best work.
     
  19. Embolus

    Embolus Member

    I think however that major bug fixes should be released ASAP. Currently I (and I'm sure many others) am refraining from playing DoD because of certain bugs and the promise they will be fixed, and in any case the longer bugs persist the greater the chance someone will encounter the game and be put off by the bugs, possibly even spreading bad reviews about it.
     
  20. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    Regarding fast, quick patches:

    We learned our lesson about doing this with the 1.0.3 pre-hotfix patch. We promised too much too quickly then killed ourselves pushing the patch out (particularly Nicholas, who got very little sleep over a course of 4 or 5 days of crunch), then it broke due to a tiny mistake and made a lot of people angry. That's not an experience any of us wants to repeat.

    So: both testing and the base-line effort required to push out a patch mean that the effort per-patch is non-trivial, so doing a lot of small patches would take more total effort than one larger patch. We're working on improving this.

    In particular, patch 1.0.4 is holistic in fixing a ton of mechanics (and a good few exploits) along with doing lots of rebalancing so I do believe we're going to do a score wipe; taken together, we don't want to trickle these changes out piecemeal.

    We're still figuring out a good protocol for doing patching, working out how fast we can do them and how big to make them. 1.0.4 is, no doubt, a correction for mistakes made with 1.0.3. Properly supporting a game that thousands of people play every day is a learning experience for Gaslamp Games.

    @DavidB1111 And a quick word on MOO3: Man, that was a disappointment that I remember well. I wouldn't blame that on the beta testers: they have no say in how a business operates. I'd put blame on a few people, but perhaps particularly on the publisher who wanted to ship a game which clearly wasn't done (and that fault a step down the line may lay in the designers and project management, etc etc).

    Gaslamp Games is not beholden to any publishers or outside owners, just ourselves and our customers. This means that we'll get this thing right even if it takes a bit more time. (And we'll be more than happy to do so once we can shift our professional focus onto Gaslamp!)