@123stw I still don't get how anything I said will MAKE smithing useless. You apparently think it already is.
If you lower the steel count anymore than now, then yeah smith will be pretty bad. You don't have enough steel items to scrap to account for a single steel per chalk. I would say at least 2 ignots per ore is needed.
So you're talking specifically about the iron to steel recipe? Because what I said would give you plenty of iron ingots. Steel is easily addressed. Steel items could make steel ingots instead of iron. Bituminous coal could drop more (ore would be useless at that point, so you could make coal drop instead of ore). Make coal/chalk obtainable from other sources. Make steel always produce 2 ingots at every level. Change the steel recipe to be slightly easier to make. It's not difficult to think of ways around the steel issue, as that would be the only ingot of which you'd possibly be lacking.
I still don't see why you need to nerf the multiple ores to ignot. By the time you can make all the bronze gears they are already fading out in effectiveness. Then you are just sitting on 20 irons and 5 bituminous and wait for the chalk to show up. Scrapping items to ignot only speeds up this process a little bit. But from a technical standpoint it will be rough because EVERY weapon and armor will need it's own scrapping recipe. So instead I propose the reverse and simply give 1 ore -> 3 ignot always. Also spawn more chalk.
In the current system, you'd need a new recipe for every item yes, but it would be easy to add (as in the devs, not us) a tag that says what material you can scrap for every item. There really aren't that many items in the first place. It was more a concept I threw out in discussion, rather than an actual suggestion. The problem with starting out with 3 ingots would be that you can craft things a bit too fast then. Granted, in the current system, you pump points into smithing and craft even faster. But, in the end, I do think that ingot production should be delinked from crafting skill in some form, as it makes tinkering and smithing feel like a trudge to slvl 5.
@fishofmuu I'm still confused why you would want to nerf the multiple ores too. I know you want to add different things, but why is it a bad thing for people to have a lot of ingots already? It's not like you can make good gear over and over, and it gets better. Seriously, I don't understand what's wrong with how much ingots you can get. What are you going to do with them after you make good gear? I'm sorry, but there's no reason to nerf it. Even after making the changes to turn items into ingots. And coal doesn't need it's spawn rate increased at all. Chalk needs it's spawn rate increased, by 40 billion times. And why would anyone in their right mind wait until skill level 5 to start making ingots! That makes no sense.
No, the problem is not having 'a lot of ingots', it's basically having NO ingots until slvl 5. It's a waste to press them before then, if you actually want to have the best smithable armor. EVERYONE waits until slvl 5, because otherwise you don't get enough ingots to make anything. Do you want one ingot or five? Again, there is no problem with the number of ingots; the problem is needing 4 points to get any, rendering low level crafting nearly useless. Read any build guide that uses crafting, and they always say get to slvl 5 right away.
@fishofmuu Maybe the solution is for the other trees to also have a starting fixed number. I mean garsh 3 arrows a ignot....... Yeah they need a buff there too. And the current alchemy exponential growth from fruit to hard liquor is just silly. 3 drinks per fruit, and 1 hard drink for 1 drink. To prevent people from not picking, 0 smith/tinker/alchem will retain the same ->1 smith/tinker/alchem will give the bonus amounts, more points with have no effects to quantity.
I'm really confused now. I put my skills almost always in Smithing for the first 5 levels, but I have not once run into a problem with not having ingots. You get 2 ingots per compress on the first skill. Up to 4 by skill level 5. At least, I always seem to get 4 ingots per ore at level 5. And really, you don't get enough ingots to make anything? What? By the end of floor 1, I usually end up with good iron weapons. Better than rough. I'm sorry, but I fail to see how you can't get enough ingots at 2 each. None of the items require more than 4 ingots. So, how can you have a hard time? I'm sorry ,but it doesn't make sense! Steel and aluminum are the only ones I don't manage to get a large amount of until floor 2 or 3. I swim in gold ingots, and even Electrum. Platnium basically rains from the sky. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure why you're saying these things. You totally do not need 4 points to get any ingots. You don't need to wait until smithing level 5 to smelt ingots.
I don't really get it either..... It's always steel. The other stuff hardly matters as far as I know. On my last smith playthrough my second piece of chalk didn't come til level 6. So that's that.
@123stw Yeah, it does get a bit crazy with tinkering where you need tinkering lvl 5 to get more ingots AND to get those ingots to make more arrows. Right now, at tinkering 1, one hematite will get you three iron bolts. At tinkering 5, one hematite will get you FORTY-EIGHT iron bolts, and they're of higher quality! Personally, I think the number of bolts made should be consistant, but make better quality bolts when you level up. That way, again, you don't feel like you need to rush to lvl 5 to make an archer. You should increase your tinkering when you need BETTER arrows, not more. Same as smithing. Getting to slvl 5 should be to get you BETTER equipment, and not more equipment. I think we agree on that, at least.
I agree with that, but could you please explain what you meant above, Fishofmuu, because I have no clue what's going on here. All I know is that ingots are not hard to come by from smithing, even at low levels. And sometimes, at skill 5, I still only get 3 ingots a press.
Well, some give you four, some give you three. And ignots are often hard to come by, because pretty much all that matters is steel. The best armor? Steel. The best weapons? Steel. http://www.dredmorwiki.com/wiki/Embossed_Serpentine_Platemail for example takes SEVEN steel. With chalk so rare, you don't want to waste making steel at anything that isn't slvl 5, because it's not uncommon that you'll never get another. Yes, some decent weapons don't always take that much, but armor is going to set you back a LOT of ingots, and if you're planning on getting that armor, again, you don't want to waste making ingots before slvl 5. Like I said, every build guide with crafting says get to slvl 5 ASAP.
@fishofmuu. Yes that part I agree. I just feel like 3 per ore would be the better starting point, for all the trees, and some of the future upgrades (such as from drinks to hard drinks) should stay at 1 to 1. I don't think quantity should increase with level at all, just quality.
Ah. good point. However, the recent games I've played as, having that armor would be bad. Vamprism + Embossed Serpentine Platemail = not useful. I've crafted it before though. And I do see what you mean. Sorry, my brain wasn't working. No hard feelings? I guess I'm also lucky because sometimes I find steel lying on the ground. I do understand not to waste the chalk. To be honest, I usually get Smithing maxed before I find my first piece of chalk. It's hillariously rarer than Radium in real life. Which recently hit like 19 million dollars a pound. @123stw "Quantity has a quality all to it's own." Joesph Stalin.
Well my first reaction was that that would be TOO many for low level crafters.... but then I remembered that low level crafters don't have a lot to craft. You'd really end up with the same amount of ingots as waiting until slvl 5, just you'd have access to them sooner (and can only make worse things with them).
@DavidB1111 Yeah, it seems like there should be more item themed rooms. There are shooting ranges with bolts, forges with forging stuff... there should be a lab with powders like brimstone and chalk and stuff.
