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Project: Community Skills Guide

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by Lorrelian, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Tinkerer meshes extremely well with rogue scientist.
     
  2. TheKirkUnited

    TheKirkUnited Member

    Oh, I see craft scaling has been removed from clockwork knight. I stand corrected. Still quite nice for crafting sweet clockwork knight appropriate gear though.
     
  3. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    Wand Crafting
    Type: Wizard
    Role: Fuel Tank or Turbocharger
    Like most crafting skills, Wand Crafting gives you more resources to make your builds better and last longer. It's unique in that it does so pretty much entirely by mimicking spells.
    Theme: Make Zappy Stick. Impress Jaegers. Never get rid of the hat.
    Strategy:
    Make a bunch of wands and lay them up for a rainy day.
    Pros:
    Wand crafting gives you healing, a couple of forms of crowd control (namely knockback and lockdown), and a couple of nifty buffs for a reasonable investment. If you feel like going all out, it also grants you a total of 6:dmg_aethereal:, a damage useful against most everything in the game, including Dredmor, and you'll get that on all your attacks, melee and ranged. The 15:magic_resist: is nice, too. All told, its a solid offensive and defensive buff for warriors or rogues between the spell effects you can craft and the passive bonuses. Mages will enjoy the boosted sagacity and the starting wands make those first few level ups much easier.
    Cons:
    Many recipes require gems, or other hard to come by ingredients. The higher level wands are not as varied and exciting as the lower level ones are solid and useful. Also, while not a power consideration, like most crafting skills, Wand Crafting requires a fair amount of inventory management. Those who dislike it should avoid.
    Synergies:
    Piracy keeps you full of gems for crafting. Also, since it tends to compete with these skills for some major ingredients, Wand Crafting does not play nicely with Blacksmithing or Alchemy.
    Takeaway:
    One important thing to keep in mind about crafting skills is that they are almost always getting better, with each patch adding new craftables, hidden and basic, to every skill and just about every skill level. They're only going to get better as time goes on. That said, they're not for everyone. Wand Crafting is great for a person who likes a little bit of everything and doesn't mind that he probably won't ever get a lot.
     
  4. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I disagree on the Alchemy thing: Alchemy's oft-overlooked Transmutationer ability means you can get rid of gems you don't want for gems you do.

    Also keep in mind that most wands scale with :wand_burn: now.
     
  5. Shwqa

    Shwqa Member

    Wand Lore also increases the damage of the Rogue Scientist's capstone skill. However a fully powered up Death Ray is worse than Astrology's capstone skill. Truth be told I hate wands and I hate wand Lore. Most wands are just terrible. The wands that are good only keep up until about floor 4-5 and then their power just drops off. Making wands is annoyingly difficult without much of a payoff. Having a stock pile of wands eats your inventory up like none other. If all wands doubled in power, had twice as many charges, and were twice as common then I might consider them useful. As of right now I don't believe any wand can do over 30 damage in a single turn. Stony Wands and Zodiac Wand are the only wands I ever really use past the first few floors.
     
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  6. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Coral Wands, Zodiac Wands, Stony Wands, and Wands of Transmogrification are all solid and useful for a long time -- and now that most wands scale to Wandcraft, it's kind of a self-sustaining thing. Even just for the ability to consistently heal quickly, purge yourself of debuffs, create walls, and turn monsters into useful stuff, Wandcrafting is pimp.

    Everyone always raves about the 5 :dmg_righteous: from Vegan, but the 6 :dmg_aethereal: from Wandcrafting is stronger in most ways. And synergy with Demonology -- Celestial Circle + Maxxed out Wand Lore (and the high Stubbornness Wand Lore gives you) is all by itself enough to reach 100 :magic_resist:, at which point you can ignore Corruption and most other annoying monster effects.

    Wand Lore is a strange skill because the primary benefits aren't obvious, and the obvious benefits aren't primary -- but it's definitely a SOLID skill if you plan around it a bit.
     
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  7. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    In case anyone is wondering, an update to the PDF on the OP is coming. Just not tonight. Let's take a break from crafting for this week and look at...

    Fleshsmithing
    Type: Wizard
    Role: Fuel Tank or Payload
    Odds are, if you're using this skill, you're looking at a cheap, easy way to keep your HP full or banking on the endgame power of spells like Corpus Burst or Miasmic Putrification.
    Theme: Waste Not, Want Not. Corpses.
    Strategy:
    Fleshsmithing looks surprisingly flexible - you can play minion master, tank or sling damage. Be warned, however, that the tree isn't actually good at most of those things.
    Pros:
    Even in the late game, raising a ton of zombies is a good way to distract monsters. The fact that you can get several of them means that even the hardest hitting named boss will be distracted for multiple turns. Knit Flesh is a wonder as a healing spell, probably the best in the game. While it won't haul your fat out of the friar against named enemies it is good for most everything else. Just watch out for the debuff that comes with it.
    Cons:
    The rest of this tree is pretty much junk. Corpus Burst is strong, but requires something dead already to work on. Meatshield is a flat out trap, offering little of value and threatening to leave you dead and buried when it wears off. Unless you're trying to pimp out Necronomiceconomic's Pact of Fleeting Life as much as possible, those extra HP won't help you. The Miasma does a reasonable amount of damage but entirely in types that are well resisted on the lower floors. Corpus Burst has much the same problem, except it replaces the Asphyxiative damage with Blasting damage, which starts higher, scales better and is less resisted (though AA does reduce it, so it is resisted some).
    Takeaway:
    Fleshsmithing is really a good Gish support skill. The healing and the distraction from the corpses is pretty good. The Meatshield buff can even be nice, if you want it. But a true caster shouldn't be expecting much from this skill, there's better trees for this spot that give much better return on MP.
     
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  8. Marak

    Marak Member

    I've actually used Fleshsmithing as my Primary Means of Healing on melee characters before; it works surprisingly well. Hit it before you charge in (possibly even combined with some long-lasting food) and you'll effectively negate a lot of incoming damage. Used this way, it plays nicely with the procs from either Master of Arms or Shield Bearer (or both). Plus, if you're playing a "pure melee" character, it gives you something to do with A) your Mana Bar and B) all that Booze the game throws at you. It's basically like having a stack of Fairywodgers that almost never runs out (you're not using that Mana for anything else, after all).

    Granted, this is a pretty limiting thing to get an entire tree for, but if you're tired of taking Alchemy or Fungal Arts all the time, it does work as Melee Needs Healing, Badly tree.
     
  9. TheKirkUnited

    TheKirkUnited Member

    Red warrior is about to die.

    Zombies also useful to melee characters for a cowardly retreat if knit flesh isn't keeping up. Not really worth climbing any higher than flesh knit though unless you've got levels to spare.
     
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  10. Shwqa

    Shwqa Member

    Knit Tissue is the best means of pure healing in the game hands down. You heal 12 :life: without any :magic_power:. Every 4 :magic_power: you get another 8 :life:. All for the low price of 3 to15:mana:. It only takes 8:magic_power: to make the healing strength of a healing potion, though it does take 6 turns.

    I don't really see Fleshsmithing as a tool used by pure wizard (who likely benefit more from Emomancy) or Warrior (fugal or alchemy) but rather by Rogues. Lay lines+ Fleshsmithing is a rogue's dream. A 3 cool down teleport, a massive summons, and a great cheap healing.
     
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  11. mining

    mining Member

    Shwqa: Don't tell Fax that! Anyway, I lean towards Fleshsmithing as a good supporting skill, but as a stronger dip in a build that already has all the other things it needs - it fills out most builds really well in providing mooks, some healing, and a little AoE.
     
  12. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Thing is, it's not so tough finding corpses to nuke when you have an 8-mob summon on hand. :)
     
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  13. Createx

    Createx Member

    It is later on when your 8 mobs die to a single touch of well, anything. They're a decent distraction, but they won't kill anything.
    EDIT: Selfowned, your 8 mobs turn into corpses when something touches them. Or do the corpses vanish?
     
  14. Shwqa

    Shwqa Member

    Yeah but just about any summon dies in one hit, I believe the highest health a summon has is 69:life:. The benefit of the zombies is that you can get 8 turns of distractions.
     
  15. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    Astrology
    Type: Wizard
    Role: Turbocharger or Payload
    Astrology is a very buff-centric skill line, but it also offers quite possible the single most massive damage spell in the game, if you're determined enough.
    Theme: Dancing With the Stars
    Strategy:
    Astrology offers a wide slew of close combat support spells and can stun a couple of different ways, on the other hand it only has one spell that can be used at range, so expect to get up close and personal.
    Pros:
    Radiant Aura is all you need to take advantage of the many monsters out there with a weakness to Radiance damage. The Stars Aligned deals absolutely bonkers quantities of Astral damage, which isn't resisted much, if at all. Syzergy likewise gives out Astral damage, along with some OK nimble/dodge bonuses that will be of use to a Gish while also giving a slight boost to casting ability. Solar Inscription is a good trap spell, fun to lay down while waiting for onrushing enemies to arrive.
    Cons:
    Radiant Aura and Celestial Aegis are both brittle, and will require a lot of recasting over the course of a run. On later floors particularly, where persistent damage fields are common, they will need multiple castings per combat. The tree's lack of range overall costs it one of the biggest draws of magic, spammable ranged combat.
    Syngergy:
    Radiant Aura provides CL 1 Necro resist, making it a fantastic Necronomics support spell. DL 1 is a breeze with this combo. The Aegis continues the trend. Syzergy goes well with the Viking Magic hungry buffs to make you a better Gish. TSA is funny with Burglary or other skills that turn you invisible.
    Takeaway:
    Astrology is good at buffing you and sometimes incapacitating your enemies, but it only really shines in a character prepared to rip around the dungeon getting personal with their magic.
     
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  16. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    !replace Radiance==Righteous
    !replace Astral==Aethereal

    But in general, yes. :)
     
  17. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Astrology is an excellent gish backup.

    Radiant Aura gives good defense (especially the proc, which can buy you several rounds), and Syzygy and Celestia Aegis give good exotic damages. My favorite gish build (admittedly, using mods) is Astrology, Viking Magic, Demonology, Inquisitor, Druid, Leylines, Archaeology.
     
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  18. mining

    mining Member

    SQUUUEEEE ASTROLOGY!!!!!

    Radiant Aura is amazing. It gives you sight, damage and resists that remain good throughout the game. Blinding Flash is similarly amazing - keep things stunlocked.

    The capstone is where its at though. Where Stars Align is one of the best spells in the game, bar nothing.

    Code:
      <requirements mp="40" savvyBonus="0.30" mincost="6" />
      <effect type="damage" aethereal="28" aetherealF="0.71"/>
      <effect type="paralyze" amount="2" turns="5" self="0" />
    Huge template, massive paralysis, and 28+ 0.71 of your MP in damage. The best part? If you can pull 70 or 80 Savvy, you can cast this spell for nearly free.

    I'd say that the most important synergies are with Magic Training [Savvy!], Killer Vegan [If they hit you, they're stunned], and other skills that let you deal with single target while you AoE nuke everything else, e.g. Mathematics.
     
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  19. Marak

    Marak Member

    Seconding the "take it for Radiant Aura and the 1 Necro resist it gives you." This serves gishes well, but also is a huge boon to a Glass Cannon mage-y type that needs a few levels under their belt before they can survive, well, anything. Being able to literally spam Deathly Hex until you're Level 2 or 3 is a godsend for those builds that otherwise wouldn't have the tools necessary to reach those all-important early Levels.

    Just watch out that you don't stack Lingering Weakness to the point that you're running about with 6 Max Health. Um, not that I've ever done that and then died to a Sickly Diggle on GRPD. Nosirree. Not this veteran DoD player.
     
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  20. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    Crafting's back.

    Alchemy
    Type: Wizard
    Role: Fuel Tank or Turbocharger
    Alchemy keeps you alive, and sometimes makes you better in combat.
    Theme: Brew fame. Bottle glory. Stopper death.
    Strategy:
    Alchemy is a great resource management skill. It lets your repurpose everyone's favorite MP restorative, booze, into the base item for a number of other useful restoratives. You can also use it to get more MP, if you want.
    Pros:
    Alchemy gives you healing, MP gain and, if you're lucky enough to find the right recipes, invisibility and resistance to voltaic, conflagatory and hyperborean damages. It also allows you to make the Window of the Elements, a nice necklace until you find a Crownstar or three, and transmute gems. Y'know, if you need something like that. Finally, exotic resistances are good all around and acid, in particular, is common throughout the game.
    Cons:
    A lot of the good stuff from Alchemy is hidden. You don't start with much of note, if you don't consider the Health and Mana potions to be of note, so you're very much at the mercy of the RNG. Advanced potions also demand some rarish items, like gems (partly mitigated by your transmute ability) and/or coal or brimstone. Also, while not a power consideration, like most crafting skills, Alchemy requires a fair amount of inventory management. It's not one of the worst offenders, although it can be somewhat tedious. Those who dislike inventory juggling should avoid.
    Synergies:
    Smithing or Tinkering can turn one hunk of hematite into two iron ingots, instead of just one, making health potion spamming more realistic. Additionally, Transmuter allows you to amass large numbers of emeralds, useful for making several of Smithing's jewelry pieces, including the amazing Emerald Encrusted Gold Ring, probably a warrior's best ring choice outside of Powerlimbs. The Sagacity bonuses are decent for any mage.
    Takeaway:
    One important thing to keep in mind about crafting skills is that they are almost always getting better, with each patch adding new craftables, hidden and basic, to every skill and just about every skill level. They're only going to get better as time goes on. That said, they're not for everyone. Alchemy is a good crafting skill for a person looking for pure survival power, with a little buffing on the side.
     
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