The Persistant Games Bundle Thread.

Some of the people who did Diablo. Not all of them

 

The worthwhile ones, anyway. I'm thinking of getting Torchlight 2 instead of Diablo 3, it's that good. And Torchlight has a nice system for "Heirloom" objects, passing on that one amazing weapon/armor/whatever to your next character. It's sweet.

 

I played the TL2 demo and decided that I'm not going to bother.

Dear developers; if you're going to have female characters, STOP. WITH. THE. EXPOSED. BREASTS. The female Bezerker's starter armour (in the demo at least) isn't even a joke. It's downright stupid.

 

Yeah, "fan service" just for the sake of it is really stupid. Sadly, that is what many players nowadays want...

 

Not even sure it's fan service, just *censored* stupid design.

 

It's a fallacy to believe that equal = the same. I'm not saying you do, Daynab, but if the male armour is the same then we still have a problem, but truth be told considering the figure of the female Berzerker, that armour is impractical simply because her breasts would be bouncing around all over the place, let alone the lack of protection it offers.

I feel my point still stands.

 

Yeah. And I think with me having an inconsistent taste in gaming right now and stuff, it's really not me worth buying it. Maybe when it goes down to £4 in the sale, but it was an issue I had with TL1 to some degree.

 

I don't believe in equality (after all, not all of us need urinals, nor do we all want to wear dresses, to name two examples). Equality is just silly once you think about what that actually means. But what I do believe in, is fairness. Unfortunately, it's the market that will determine how fair things are. If you are unhappy, it's not us you need to be talking to, but to the devs and game publishers. Unfortunately, it's the market that will determine your results, and most male gamers, I'll tell you right now, are probably not going to want to protest skimpy female clothing.

On the other hand, Mods might take care of the problem for you (I don't know for sure, but I do know that T2 will eventually support modding, once they make the tools available).

 

Actually, the supreme court would disagree, which is why I made the distinction between equality and fairness.

 

Equality is sensible when you think about it as equal opportunities. So, no, not everyone wants to wear dresses but I firmly believe everyone should have the ability to safely purchase and wear one in public without fear of, well, anything. It's only a bit of cloth, isn't it?

To keep my point relatively linked to this site, you could look at the two Dredmor characters. That is what I would consider fairly equal design. Both wear very similar clothes in art (black boots, grey trousers, white shirt, leather armour), but they're slightly stylised - the male's is 'toned' like a Greek cuirass, the female one sticks to the contours of her body. I would say they're both equally pointless like that. That, to me, is fairly equal design.

What isn't equal, however, is when male armour (think Steel from Oblivion here) is all-covering whereas the female one has breasts and a deep v-neck. That's not equal on any level. Torchlight 1 and 2, from what I recall and experienced, take that path.

 

In the words of Inigo Montoya -- "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "

Equality means you give people the same exact choices EVEN WHEN those choices may not hold the same appeal. Fairness just means that you have sufficent choices so that everyone is satisfied.

What you already have is equality, because both male and female players have the same options. But you don't have fairness because there isn't a choice that you like. You are never actually guaranteed fairness, unfortunately, simply because the people designing the game don't read your mind.

 

That's not relevant to what I was saying though. You need enough people to protest to get devs and publishers to take notice, and you already are cutting out almost half of your potential allies. That's my only point.

 

*Raises an eyebrow*

 

I think he meant the armour designs being equally... sad.

 

My eyebrow is still half-way to the Moon.

 

And it doesn't really matter if it is...

Because both of you are entitled to your own opinions, and if you perceive the word "equal" differently then there isn't much that can be done to bring one to the other's side.

 

I can't go into too much detail without getting political. Let's just say that I've gotten tired of people descriminating in the name of equality. So whenever I hear people talking about equality, I have personal experiences with it that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Example -- when I moved to Ohio, things were a lot different than in New York as far as holidays were concerned. In New York, I had an option to take off either Good Friday or Yom Kippur. In Ohio, I didn't have that choice. In other words, I was treated equally, but not fairly. If I wanted to observe Yom Kippur, I had to use a vacation day. Note that I no longer observe most Jewish holidays, but I used to.

There's a kind of soft descrimination that goes on all over, that people don't think about unless they are victims of it. So if anyone asks, I am totally against equality. I want that put on my gravestone. Instead, I'd rather just be treated fairly.